Mental Health Matters
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and mental health professional hosts #MentalHealthMatters. Interviewing doctors and therapists, treatment professionals, organizational leaders, and other members of the mental health community about the importance of mental health awareness, treatment and the future of addressing mental health in the US. Discussing how to support mental health in our communities from hospitals to the dinner table and what to do when crisis arises.
Mental Health Matters
Transforming Mental Health Care with Clay Weaver
Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Clay Weaver, CEO of LifeSkills South Florida, as he reveals the intricacies of high-end crisis stabilization and treatment for severe mental health conditions. Gain unmatched insights from Clay's extensive 25-year career in behavioral health care management, as he explains how LifeSkills' unique care model and tailored support services like daily case management and in-home therapy provide stability and meaningful lives for those battling chronic mental illnesses. This episode offers a glimpse into the innovative approaches that make LifeSkills a standout program for complex mental health cases.
We also tackle the challenging financial and legal landscapes of mental health treatment, particularly in Florida. Clay sheds light on the critical need for individualized programming and wraparound support, likening the care for mental health conditions to that of chronic physical illnesses. Through our discussion, we scrutinize the current gaps in mental health care compared to physical health care, explore changing generational attitudes, and express cautious optimism for future policy shifts and improvements. Tune in to understand the evolving mental health care landscape and the ongoing efforts to better support this vulnerable population.
Hello folks, welcome once again to Mental Health Matters. This is Todd Weatherly, your host, therapeutic consultant and behavioral health professional on WPVM 1037, the voice of Asheville. I'm here today with somebody I think I can call him a friend. I've known him for a decade or better. At this point, that's right. I am happy to have the Chief Executive Officer Of Life Skills of South Florida, although they're not just South Florida anymore, they're all over the place. They've got three facilities in the Florida area, including Fort Lauderdale, orlando and Delray Beach. With transitional level programming, they've got a full continuum of care, including acute care and stabilization and assessment. They cover the whole nine yards and we have been working together with clients for many years. Chief Executive Officer Clay Weaver. Clay brings over 25 years of behavioral health care management experience, including 20-plus years in executive leadership.
Speaker 1:Clay joined LifeSkills South Florida in 2015 as CEO. Prior to joining LifeSkills, he served as COO of Skyland Trail, a therapeutic community. There in Atlanta, georgia, where he oversaw the organization's strategic growth, financial operations, clinical operations and marketing. Roots in community mental health. That's where we rejive. Clay led two of the largest community mental health centers in the state of Georgia, providing services to over 17,000 individuals annually in 11 counties. Clay received his Bachelor of Arts and MDiv which I didn't know in Ashbury Theological Seminary and his Master's Degree in Social Work the mules of the mental health world From the University of Kentucky. As a licensed social worker for over two decades he has enjoyed being active in community and serving multiple nonprofit boards, including Red Cross, georgia Community Service Board Association and, most recently, the Delray Beach Drug Task Force. Since leading the team of LifeSkills South Florida, he has been instrumental in the growth and programmatic expansion to provide additional services. Uh, he's also an amateur, uh, stand-up paddleboarder. I know, clay. Um, my friend, it is good to have you on the show, welcome thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, glad to be here absolutely well.
Speaker 1:You know you and I can go all kinds of places with this, but, um, I'll knowing life skills the way that I do, having referred to you guys for many years. I work with your team, with many clients and, um, you know the the thing, that the thing that you're well known for and that we use you for is high-end crisis stabilization and the model for life skills. I'll call it different. I'm not saying that there aren't residential treatment programs out there that definitely enlist the professional expertise of doctors, but a lot of your team are doctorate level or high end experience, master's level clinicians from the you know, the family therapist and the regular therapist that you're using, and and even staff across the board. There's a lot of very experienced, highly credentialed people that are running the show are running the show and that has caused you and life skills in general to be someone sought after for some of the most complex cases.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know some of the folks I've sent your way are, you know, violent histories, are coming out of jail, they've got suicidal ideation, they've got multiple, multiple hospitalizations, multiple residential treatments where they haven't been able to stabilize, and life skills is the place that not just me, I know lots of people seek you out because one, no one else will take them and few others have been able to be successful.
Speaker 1:Now, I wouldn't say it's 100%, but it's pretty high. The success rate of individuals that I've sent to LifeSkills is pretty high, especially on the stabilization end. You know like they get to a place where they're taking the right medications, they're doing well, they're engaged in treatment, they're ready to step down to transitional level programming and other aspect of life skills that you guys have. What you know with this background and like multi years of community mental health and you come into the private pay side of things, you've designed a program that looks like this what, what is it that caused you to model it that way? What like what is it that you know occurred to you like this is the best way to do this?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, todd, that that's interesting. Uh, been asked that before several times, I think um my background in community mental health. If you and I have talked about this, we both share a background there and a passion. Do you think back to traditional community mental health where you have families who have a loved one who has chronic mental illness and the chronicity drives that person Like there is a baseline, they can get to a baseline and they can have a meaningful life? But it takes a lot of wraparound, a lot of services, and it takes a different style of services, like someone who is really chronic in their illness. We would not set them up. You or I would not do this. We go pretend that client is me and say, oh, send Clay to therapy one time a week and go see the psychiatrist once a month. First thing we would notice is Clay would not keep his appointment.
Speaker 1:Not even the first one.
Speaker 2:Right, would not be on, would not be taking the medication and then it would go downhill. So in community mental health the challenge is there is a population of individuals who do real well, who will keep those appointments, who will do that and they can maintain and they have a meaningful life, life. There's a large population in community mental health that is served all over the nation in that model where services have to be wrapped around an individual for them to be successful, for them to have the meaningful life that they're capable of and the life they deserve. And many times it's these out-of-the-box services where you conceptualize case management going to their house every day or a therapist doing therapy at their house, someone taking them grocery shopping and making sure that they have food. They're not just buying junk food or they're not even buying food, they're giving their money away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and geriatrics, we might call it in-home health, right.
Speaker 2:There you go and there's many different model names for that, but it's where we wrap services around someone and build them up to the point they're successful and they have that meaningful life. I think when I looked at life skills that my background in community mental health was taking large populations who otherwise would be cycling in and out of state hospitals, local psychiatric hospitals, emergency rooms, jails, homeless on the street. So how do you wrap services around so that those individuals then have the meaningful life Looking and so that was my background being able to do that successfully for a population and within those populations? Very quickly individuals sort of fall out into two categories. Now I know the research gets more detailed, but overall there are two categories. There becomes one category where individuals really the skills, the wraparound, the watchful oversight, the medication, it all comes together and individuals begin to progress and they actually begin to gain in certain areas. They begin to do volunteerism or they begin to hold small part time jobs. They begin to take meaningful advances in their life and they actually get to a point where they're doing very well.
Speaker 2:There's another category of individuals in those situations where we begin to discover and learn that they have heavy chronicity, somewhat as we would think of someone with kidney failure or someone with heart failure, someone with cancer stage four cancer cancer and they're having, so their treatment's very different than someone with stage one cancer. Their outcomes are very different. So we look at this second population of individuals and we say what is their meaningful baseline? They may never be well, they may never be able to go without medication. They may need ongoing support at a lower level. But can we get them to a point where they hit a baseline where they at least have a meaningful life? They're successful, as we would define success for them individually, and they're doing things they wouldn't otherwise do and they're not cycling in and out of the hospital. So those two clumps of individuals Coming to LifeSkills LifeSkills had a 25-year history prior to me of serving individuals like that.
Speaker 2:I think from my perspective it was clear that we should be more deliberate with these individuals and develop more intensive programming and wraparound. So if you think about community mental health, typically not always, but typically is families who have a loved one who does not have the financial means to manage for themselves. They can't pay for treatment, so the government provides that treatment in some form or another. Coming to life skills I wanted to look at a model where individuals who have good insurance or some families who have the means, but what those families without or with insurance and with money, what they may lack is where do I get this kind of help Right? Where do I go? Because there are over 10,000 addiction treatment programs around the nation. They're all in Florida, right?
Speaker 1:All over, most of them in Florida, that's true.
Speaker 2:It's a treatment capital of the world. So, looking at it, how do we then build a program that meets people's needs? Who have loved ones? They have some form of good insurance, they have some financial means that they can help their loved one. However, what they lack is the knowledge of how to develop and build these services around an individual, and I think that's where life skills comes in. So it comes in in multiple stages. They first begin with someone like Todd Weatherly and your team of ed consultants who guides them and helps them find a resource, and then someone provides that in a non-traditional manner. As opposed to saying this is my program, here's what we do, we have to reverse engineer it and say here's the individual, here's what they're dealing with. How do we wrap support around them so that they begin to heal, they begin to stabilize and they begin to learn the skills they need to reach their baseline?
Speaker 1:Well, and one of the pieces to that, of course, is some of it is also the very strong laws for involuntary commitment with Marchman Acts and Baker Acts. Commitment with marchman acts and baker acts uh, it's kind of a place in the world and in the country that you've got. You can involuntarily commit someone if they're expressing certain kinds of behaviors and they've they've interacted with a therapist or a therapeutic professional like a psychiatrist, psychologist or what have you, and the hospital systems are far more responsive than other places in the country. Makes florida very operational kind of place for for handling people in crisis, right, um, and you guys have a you know, you know, one step, especially for my folks like, land them in front of you. They're like, yeah, they need to go to the hospital for a second and have enough of a relationship with the hospital that you can put them in a locked unit, put them in a situation where they can stabilize on medications even though they're very quasi-unwilling at the time because they're delusional or psychotic and they're having all these kinds of issues. Get stabilized just enough to be able to participate in residential programming. Come in, even on your you know, you've got even acute care level programming available to them, which is, you know, a little more supervision, a little more checks, q15s, things like that. These people are getting a lot of supervision as part of their care. They may do that for a minute and then they can step into what we'd see as a full residential program 60 to 90 days. From there, you're doing PHP, you've got IOP and then you've got transitional living. So you've got, I mean, if you need it, there's five operational phases of care that a person can come into in life skills.
Speaker 1:I ask this question I mean interviews across the board is I don't know why government doesn't get this model yet and why, or you know, let's you know, part of the issue is also getting insurance to pay for it. Part of the, you know, for families that have insurance but don't have enough resources to pay out of pocket for something insurance, is trying to avoid paying as much as they can. Government, you know, if you go to a hospital anywhere else certainly here in the Carolinas you go to a hospital and their thought is well, you know, iop, right. You know a person just had a psychotic break. They're going to walk out in the hot, they will walk out of the street and we're going to give them an IOP to go to. It's like never going to happen. It's never going to happen.
Speaker 1:And they see, you know, clearly, they see these people cycle back through with, they know the revolving door scenario that's happening. I wonder, you know, where is the? Where's the dam going to break? You know what I mean. When is it? When is it that we see that community, we see pieces of it like what is your thought about that? What is it that's going to make the mark and have people kind of understand that. You know this, this is a cost. This is mad. This is dollars and cents?
Speaker 2:You know that question. I don't even know that I could fully answer it. I mean far, far broader people than I are asking those questions that you asked but say we've seen the first dam break and there's probably multiple dams that are going to have to break. I think the first dam was COVID. We've now seen across the nation data now supports that individuals are struggling even more than they were before COVID, pre-covid Like we're seeing the hospitalization rates, we're seeing the acuity of the individual. That first dam has broken. I'm not sure what it's going to take for I mean in multiple levels, at least in my opinion. I think we have the government. Are we as taxpayers going to be willing to accept a tax-insurance at their business or they're executives of very large corporations?
Speaker 2:They have thousands of people on their insurance roles and I've had those discussions with them where they have a loved one in treatment with them, where they have a loved one in treatment, and what every one of them has said to me when they look at it and they go back and ask questions from their insurance broker, what they've come back and told me not in the exact words but summing up is like you know what? It is possible to get better premiums. It is possible to get better coverage. It's very possible, but it's going to cost my company a lot of money and I think at the end of the day, it's a money resource question that most people really we don't want to have because it's going to come out of our pockets. Ultimately and I'm not for sure, when we go cost benefit analysis, the nation is going to hell. The nation is struggling versus increasing the cost. I'm not for sure when that happens.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's. You know I'm going to I'm going to trash a large company here for a second. You do power in our area Anytime something needs to be upgraded or a system needs to be. You know the cost of it is always visited on the consumer and it's like you guys should have been doing this ages ago. You should have laid it into your infrastructure in the first place. You're still just as difficult to work with and you're still putting the dollar on the consumer, or they're, you know, just as difficult to work with and you're still putting the dollar on the consumer. And not even when they get government money to do something, they'll take that money, barely do it and then still put it on the consumer to cover the cost.
Speaker 1:I think the same is true of insurance companies. We're talking about more or less insurance companies being negligent in their coverage. Here is a prescribed treatment protocol. We all know it works. We know the full extent of care that needs to transpire for an individual suffering from severe and persistent mental illness, and it's not just a hospital stay, it's residential treatment. You've got policies out there they don't even acknowledge residential treatment as a coverage potential. You've got to get fairly high-ended plans. Again, passing it off to the consumer, I wonder. I mean, it's going to take a lawsuit in government and everything else to make them take it on the chin. It's like look guys, you've been pulling dollars off of the public for all this time. We know you got a big pool of money sitting out there. You guys are going to have to take it on the chin for a while and and really actually acknowledge that this coverage area is your responsibility for the people that pay you for your services. And you know we tried parody coverage right, there was.
Speaker 1:You can't deny a person based on they dodged that and there weren't any teeth to it. And so you know we're the the addictions industry and you guys are very much a co-occurring treatment program, which you know. When I say true co-occurring, I mean rare, because you've got people who have substance use issues, very serious substance use issues. They can come get a level of care from you and on the other side of that, somebody with psychotic features to their disorder, whether it's substance-induced or not, can also get a level of mental health care that they require.
Speaker 1:A lot of programs out there, especially addictions programs, will say they're co-occurring programs but the level of acuity they can handle is just not in their bandwidth occurring programs. But the level of acuity they can handle is it's, it's just not in their bandwidth. So but the addiction side of the house has been advocating for coverage a lot and I know, and you probably know, that their coverage is a lot better than primary mental health coverage. Are you guys see, are you guys I know that you're duly licensed in the state Are you getting getting different coverage kinds of stuff out of the companies when it comes in, when somebody comes in with a primary substance diagnosis versus a primary mental health?
Speaker 2:Probably from our end of life skills. We're probably not a good barometer of that. Typically the individual that comes to us with some form of addiction or dependency issue, that individual is going to have some very heavy underlying mental health issues as well. So the type of individual that's at life skills typically is going to look more like that chronically mentally ill individual who also happens to use substances. So what we're getting looks very different. So on average we're getting about 31 days insurance coverage at LifeSkills.
Speaker 1:For a 90-day stay.
Speaker 2:For a 90-day stay. It covers about one-third. And the unfortunate thing is you are correct that insurance companies in some way are really not being transparent or they're sort of masking. So a family thinks I have coverage, so they hold their insurance card up. You know, I'm holding my phone up.
Speaker 1:Hey, I got good insurance.
Speaker 2:I have coverage and typically what we're seeing is I've talked to friends who are more in the addiction side you know they're seeing 14, 17 days coverage and that's horrible. With mental health, in network mental health programs we're seeing 20 to 22 day lints of stay that are authorized by insurance. So that's what others in the industry are experiencing. So we look at that from an individual who's struggling. Maybe they're having psychosis, whether it's drug induced psychosis, or it's an early break. Whatever it may be psychosis or it's an early break. Whatever it may be, those individuals, you know, just two or three weeks is at best a partial stabilization.
Speaker 2:It's not even a full stabilization period let alone, a time for the cognitively, for the brain to begin to change how it thinks, for individuals to get comfortable with and an understanding of their medication that they have to take. It sort of as we would do as someone with blood pressure, you know, with high blood pressure, with you have to take this medication and get to a point with that medication of stability. You know, know you have stability.
Speaker 1:Therapeutic dose right.
Speaker 2:And so individuals are getting like 20 days and then they're going home and immediately they're struggling. They don't have the same individuals who are championing them every day with their medication, morning and in the evening, and using techniques to get them to remember and techniques to get them engaged in their recovery. And then there's the skill building. We have to build the skills. What are the underlying issues they're struggling with? Maybe it's trauma, maybe it's severe depression that's never been treated, an anxiety disorder. What kind of skills do they need to manage that back home? And those skills are better learned in an intensive setting where you come to terms with the medication and your understanding and your compliance and you build your skills and you walk away with a demonstrated ability to succeed, as opposed to walking back home and in the first week the plan goes out the window.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and you can imagine you know I try to say this to people all the time, but you know, if you're walking in, I mean let's take the stabilization period of time away Like it's going to take you at least two weeks to reach a therapeutic dose, if not more, of whatever medication that we think is going to work, and we've got to have time to discover what that is. Sometimes If there's substances in use, then you've got to cool off and you've got to let those substances get out of the system before you start getting kind of the results. You know you're talking about a month's worth of stabilization time. Let's forget about that just for a second and talk about somebody who say it's got. You know, depression and advanced trauma kinds of issues that are going on. You start, you start I, I, not the can of trauma. I call it the trauma trunk. Like you lift the trunk on that sucker and let that, let some of that stuff out.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine a person going home at night after having a full day of kind of you know, running through this trauma or processing some level of trauma? It's going to be a disaster. They need people around them, they need support. When they wake up at night. They need somebody there to say, hey, I need to talk about this. They might need a therapist that they that's on call, that they need to talk to. When the you know, the night, the nightmare that occurs after the trauma day uh processing has happened like this occurs after the trauma day uh processing has happened like this you can't do it from home at certain levels, you know, you just can't.
Speaker 2:we sort of it's so funny, it's like, uh, our industry and sort of our public conception, um, we struggle with, you know. Going back to the cancer example, someone who needs to go to md anderson and they need to stay there for eight weeks and receive treatment. That would be no different than someone being stabilized in the hospital and coming to residential for a few months. We understand that, but we struggle with it. When it comes to mental health, I hear individuals all the time I'm sending I have a loved one, they're going to MD Anderson, they're going to Houston for treatment, I'm going to Mayo Clinic, I'll be there for a while. Yet on the mental health side, we think that we can treat someone with stage four, that we can treat them as though they're stage one, and we struggle with that.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know the acknowledgement that you know this happened to my mother several years ago.
Speaker 1:You know she fell and broke her hip common, pretty geriatric kind of issue. She spent several weeks being in a facility so that she could be assisted in walking and healing and the process and everything else, and after that you had PT and follow-up care and all these other pieces and basically you're talking about a year's worth of a care plan that took place but in our minds a geriatric adult falling and breaking their hip it's an everyday thing. We know what to expect from this and follow-up care makes sense to us and PT and everything else we don't know. And I find that people largely don't understand that. Like the rubber meets the road when you're doing follow-up care, like we can even do a very substantial and good job of residential, you know, get this person stabilized, write medications, go through treatment, but one of the most vulnerable steps that people ever take is that step down to PHP or IOP or some form of transitional living and if you don't come out of residential you're just going to go home. That's not going to work either.
Speaker 1:No, no, you know they're very quickly going to find that living life now with what they've accepted as a condition and managing all the pieces of it, can be very difficult if you don't learn how, in stages, and so the the world seems to not understand that. Um, and that's the model I would love for the government to embrace, for insurance to embrace my son you know the story my oldest son, dr Kane.
Speaker 2:He had a stroke at age 28. And he spent almost six weeks in a hospital. Four of those weeks were in the NICU unit. Oh wow, two weeks in general hospital getting ready for transition. Then he was stepped down to four months to a rehabilitation hospital, a lower level care of hospitalization with specialty, but would be similar to our residential. But he combined had five and a half months between hospitalization and rehabilitation, followed by a full year of outpatient rehabilitation. So physically, with physical primary health, our government seems to get it, our insurances seem to get it some cover more, some cover less, but they get it. But when it comes to behavioral health, mental health, unfortunately the model really dies off and there's a deficit there.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think we've got, you know, you've got the silent generation, you've got boomers and Xers and and even to a certain extent extent with Xers, which I am one Xers, and even to a certain extent with Xers, which I am one, you've got several generations of people that you don't complain about how you feel you muscle through and you don't talk about.
Speaker 1:You don't talk about psychological issues. You know, and and and. Back in the day, when you still had analysts you know it was the analyst was telling you what you thought about, what you thought or how you felt, you know, and what you needed to do about that, as opposed to a model, a reflective model that was. You know, victor Frankel was probably the guy that we can, we can put, we can say it was the grandfather of, of reflective therapy. You know it's like actually let's, let's ask them questions and let them talk and see if they can find their own answers, instead of telling them what to think.
Speaker 1:Um, so, at any rate, you know we're we're still coming out of it. You know we're still coming out of this place where, where mental health is undervalued or not understood and it needs to be kept quiet, you don't talk to people about it and you certainly don't get help for it. Like we're coming out of that. And the pandemic, like you say, I think that's a very astute observation. The pandemic was the first dam. What do you think is the next one?
Speaker 2:You know, I really think there's a part of me that's very not optimistic Getting this government to change, I mean you know, are you saying, after this many years in the field, you're jaded, clay, yeah, very jaded.
Speaker 2:So whatever changes the government makes. We know is going to be slow. But, that said, I think there is some optimism around the you said it this next generation. They're more open about what they're going through, they're more expressive about it. It's no longer the hidden secret of my generation and even the generation after me.
Speaker 2:Where I can remember, in my earliest of days in community mental health, going back to 1991, I was specifically at a community mental health center in Kentucky, finished up my graduate work. I'd been working in the field for about five years at that point, but I was at a community mental health center and I was working in the outpatient building and this lady that was probably 60-ish had an appointment that was on my schedule for an intake and it was interesting. And it was interesting, she lived about 60 miles away and I asked her. Then I said to this lady, whose name I can't remember but I'll never forget her face because it was so early in my career and I asked her there's a clinic right in your hometown. You, you drove like over an hour through the Kentucky mountains and hills, coming Two hours, and her and really, and her comment was something like well, you know, everyone knows each other in that community and I'm afraid that someone in that office will know me and they'll tell my friends or my family and they'll know I have a problem and I really want help and I'm desperate and I just thought, oh my God, that's so sad, but that's the generation that I come from.
Speaker 2:I look at it, that's how it used to be and it's slowly gotten better from. I look at it, that's how it used to be and it's slowly gotten better. But I think one of the good things with the young generation is they are bringing change, like the stigma is being reduced around mental health and people are having real conversations. People are open, like, for example, today. I would never have thought of this, even if it existed 20 years ago, I don't think it did Google reviews I would never think about years ago that people would leave Google reviews for their positive mental health services, for the gains they made. Yet you can go on the LifeSkills website see hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of clients who leave Google reviews stating the benefit they receive. So I think there is a change in this generation that is really coming and, as much as I hate to admit it, that generation is probably our biggest hope, not my generation.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, well, you know, know it's, it's uh, they got us in numbers. You know what I mean? Oh my gosh. Well, you know I, you know they they come in stages, the waves they come. And I think you're absolutely right about generations. Covid did a lot for us and you've also got generations that are not like. You know, I'm going to work 40 hours unless you're paying me more, right, right we? I didn't think that way when I, you know like you just show up for work and you work right.
Speaker 2:Whatever?
Speaker 1:they tell you and so you know. But then you know, my generation is like generations before they thought that and then they had pensions and they had retirement and everything else. They before they thought that and then they had pensions and they had retirement and everything else. They stripped us of all that stuff. So now we're like, wait, hold on. Yeah, yeah, I missed the boat on this somehow. So, yeah, I think that, uh, people are, are looking, looking for better systems and models for care and mental health. Is, is, is on the forefront. So I, I'm excited about that. I, I, I will probably reach retirement myself I know you will before we really see it.
Speaker 2:But I hope even in retirement someday but be able to look and see and to read that our world has changed, that these young adults have made a big difference. I think we all are probably guilty as middle-aged adults and even senior adults who look at the young generation and we very quickly see the negative they bring. We see all these things like the world's changing and it's not for the best, but I do think there's something that they're bringing to us with the reduction of stigma and being open, treating mental illness like any other primary health issue. I think that's going to be a difference maker and it could be the thing that really breaks the next dam for our society.
Speaker 1:Well, when they started, ended up in political roles and things like that and decisions made differently and yeah, I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful about that. Now it is my right and title is the older generation to complain about the generation.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Well, clay man, I tell you it's always good to see you, always good to talk to you and share your insights about this and, of course, keep going with all the developments and the great stuff that you're doing down there with life skills and the programming you guys offer. Um, I'm. I've enjoyed having you on the show today. This has been mental health matters on wpbm 1037. The voice of ashville todd weatherly, your host, clay weaver, ceo of life skills. Thanks for joining us, my friend thank you, todd, I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:Thank you absolutely. We'll see you soon. Take care, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you.