Mental Health Matters
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and mental health professional hosts #MentalHealthMatters. Interviewing doctors and therapists, treatment professionals, organizational leaders, and other members of the mental health community about the importance of mental health awareness, treatment and the future of addressing mental health in the US. Discussing how to support mental health in our communities from hospitals to the dinner table and what to do when crisis arises.
Mental Health Matters
Experiential Healing with Robert Trout
Join us on Mental Health Matters as we welcome Robert Trout, Executive Director and Founder of the Experiential Healing Institute, to unpack his innovative approach to family therapy. Robert's unique methods—ranging from group facilitation to rites of passage—emphasize the power of family systems in achieving lasting mental health success. Discover how his new platform, ParentTrainers.com, connects families with professionals to provide essential resources and support.
In an emotionally charged chapter, we delve into the nuances of family interactions and conflict resolution. Robert emphasizes the need for genuine connection and understanding, offering strategies to manage high-stress situations with empathy and calm. Hear how creative techniques, like face painting during family meetings, can break old communication patterns and foster stronger relationships. This episode is packed with practical advice and inspiring stories designed to equip families with the tools they need to build a supportive, nurturing home environment. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from a visionary in the field of experiential healing.
Hello everybody, welcome back once again to Mental Health Matters on WPVM 1037, the voice of Asheville. I'm Todd Weatherly, your host behavioral health expert and therapeutic consultant, and I have a guy I probably call him a friend at this point.
Speaker 1:I think we've known each other and we're I don't know we're edging up on a decade at this point in time. With me today on the show is Mr Robert Trout, executive Director and Founder of the Experiential Healing Institute. Mr Trout and Mr Robert has a master's in counseling and extensive experience as a master field guide, field director and treatment therapist for many programs over his career. Robert has one of the most extensive backgrounds to better understand and work with families in crisis and just in need of a plan and skills to implement. Robert's hope is to serve individuals and families that are struggling and teach the skills he has gathered over a long career to anyone who is ready to learn them. He believes that the family system is the key to long-term success to support the whole family during crisis and mental health challenges. The whole family during crisis and mental health challenges.
Speaker 1:With over 20 years in the field and expertise in group facilitation, rites of passage, experiential therapy and treatment practices, robert uses his depth of knowledge in these areas to create trainings that challenge parents to see beyond their own limitations and to foster new ideas in their lives and within their families and communities. He utilizes his study of metaphor, experiential practices, life skills and therapeutic program to influence, work with people's belief systems, to create supportive environment so that they can choose to grow and change. Robert is also the founder of ParentTrainerscom, which is a soon-to-be-launched platform for families and professionals to meet, learn from one another, share resources and provide support. Mr Trout, welcome to the show, thank you.
Speaker 2:Todd, yeah, I would call us friends at this point. I'd say so.
Speaker 1:You know, I'd say, I'd say so. I think we, we met at an IECA, didn't we? Yes, yeah, if you don't know what an IECA is. Ieca is the Independent Educational Consultants Conference. There's Independent Educational Consultants Association Conference. I'm not a member of the IECA because I'm a therapeutic consultant and an educational consultant. There is a difference between those two, and then we were introduced by the now retired Louise Slater.
Speaker 1:But then we worked together and, and, and, given each other um ribbing whenever I think I get more ribbing than you give me um to be fair.
Speaker 1:So you know yes our personalities go that direction they, they do, they do, um, but we also come from. We're also both kind of born in the experiential and outdoor field, yes, which means that we share a lot of the, though in different areas, a lot of the same stories and a lot of the same I was, who was I with? I was with somebody. We were sitting in the car and we were talking about. Somebody was in the car. We were talking about. Somebody was in the car. It's like, you know, you guys kind of have this personality where you, where you like just kind of do things and take charge of stuff and go ahead and do stuff. I'm like just plant yourself in a group full of, like wilderness leaders and we're all like that. That's just how we are. Like, as soon as we walk into the room, we start moving tables and chairs and we start throwing things and like hey, can you get us that like we're? There's a group of people out there and we're all like that we can immediately see what.
Speaker 2:What needs to change to accomplish the goal. Right, that's how we're trained. Um, it doesn't really matter. You know ropes courses, wilderness therapy, whatever genre. When you want to step into the whole job is reading the scenario and preparing for all possible outcomes. That's right. I feel like that's our education is. Oh, this needs to happen. Might as well get it done well.
Speaker 1:That plays pretty. That plays pretty well into the environment you're in, though it it's not necessarily in the forest anymore, but you know. You know you're working with families that are that are are either faced with crisis and need to figure out what to do and create a plan, um, and you know like if you and I work together on a client, it's because they're they've got big questions about what to do. I might be guiding them in one way, but your group can kind of go in boots on the ground, work intensively with the family, help them understand the need for help and care and those kinds of things, and help that person warm up to the idea and make a plan for taking the know, getting taken, taking the steps to get the, the work or the treatment that they need. Um, or the other side, which is frankly just as delicate, which is after a person's gone into a therapeutic environment of some kind. Maybe they're coming home from treatment or boarding school, or maybe it's an adolescence or even a young adult or an older adult. You guys don't really have a cap on age. This person's going to come back and reintegrate into their life and you guys are going to walk in boots on the ground, into the house, into the area, and help the family and the individual work on a plan that's going to be sustainable in the end, really integrate some of the stuff they brought back um, and then a lot of that work, um around working with parents, which is why you've launched this new platform, so that you can just have another medium, you know, another medium for supporting parents and supporting families and giving them resources and connecting them to resources and that sort of thing, which is pretty exciting, I think.
Speaker 1:I think that's where the world is these days, we look online for the stuff that we need a lot. So, you know, why don't you tell me about the journey that got you there? Like, give us the like what I would? I don't. I think I can probably count, on one hand, the number of people I think like Embark's got an intensive that they do in kind of in home and they're like two or three others. There are plenty of coaching companies that are out there kind of like doing work, but yours is very specific. This in-home intensive work is very specific and they're not that many people doing it. How did you get to the place where you thought that that was where your experience was going to find the best traction with families and their needs.
Speaker 2:Well, the truth is is that the story of the Experiential Healing Institute started. I was working wilderness therapy for over 20 years, from nine different programs, every different angle of guide, through master, therapist, trainer, et cetera. And then there was this time where I was having a conversation with a consultant and I'll keep that all private, but essentially what we got to with this place where I said out loud to her hey, we have this parent group and you're asking can this kid come home? Can this girl come home from wilderness and be successful? And my honest answer is is if these parents train to be field guides, if I could train them to be responsive rather than reactive, with the neurological tricks and trainings, the language techniques, how to build an intervention strategy for this child's needs, how to do all these skills right. There's all these things that if these parents knew how to do what my team can do, then this girl can come home.
Speaker 2:And we kind of paused the conversation. She's like that would be amazing. It's like, yeah, I think it would be amazing. And we kind of paused the conversation. She's like that would be amazing. It's like, yeah, I think it would be amazing. And as field guys, we used to joke about it that, like parents need to go through a training before they become parents, like to get their little card. Like I got trained, I can be a parent now. It's like how different would the world be if we were prepared for possible outcomes, right, just like our training and working in the woods. And so that was the conversation. And then she called me the next day and said I'm going to send you in, you're going to train this family as the guides that you need them to be. And I was like no, no, no, no, I have a job, I'm a wilderness therapist.
Speaker 2:I'm good I work 80 hours a week Like I don't need anything else. And she's like please, rob, I'm begging you to consider, just have the conversation with this family. And I was like, okay, for you, I will have this conversation and the next thing I go to the take of a system. Yeah, I talked to the family. They would not take no for an answer. They knew this is what they needed to get their kid home and that's how the EHI was born, was them saying we will mail you a check right now. And I said I'm not even incorporated, I don't have a laptop. Like what are you talking about? And they mailed me a check. I took that check to the bank, opened a business account and then drove to Best Buy and bought a phone and a computer. And I'm still using those things today.
Speaker 2:Because that was the rollout and so many families wanted it and needed that type of not coaching. They wanted the playbook, the action steps to take, the protocols to follow to support the long-term care of their kid or young adult. It didn't matter, they just parents. They didn't want to guess what to say or what to do anymore, they wanted the hard. This is how you do this.
Speaker 2:So I had to step out of the therapeutic world into the coaching and training world, which we already did. We train field guides those of us who do this work now and it's like, oh so we just don't train guides anymore. We train parents and families, grandparents, aunts, uncles, whoever it might be. So the origin story was that I knew what we needed for these kids to be able to come home and be successful, because at the time, like you said, there are parent coaches and people like that and they're great. I'm not saying anything negative to it. For some families, that's all they need is to read the workbook and to have conversations about what autism is right. They need that education. That's great, whereas for us, it was very much like I'm standing in the kid's bedroom and acting out the fights that they would have or the refusal to get out of bed or the whatever it might be, and the parent's job is to work me out of that place using the skills that we're teaching them.
Speaker 2:And that process's very experiential, education-based, leading into the when we leave. You've written your own playbook, because that's also really important and we've always really stood on that platform of what I teach you is not going to work for the family down the street. We have to build the language and the interventions and the strategies around your family, your culture.
Speaker 1:Your dynamics are unique to you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely so. The origin story is that each family that reached out said, well, here's what we're going through. And then myself and then my team, because we exploded. About three months after I accidentally started this thing, we started growing exponentially, where it's like more and more families were realizing that the answer wasn't therapy. You know, it's not. How do you feel that? Your kid punched the wall? It's what do you like? Five ways to handle that. That's what it ultimately got to.
Speaker 1:So let me see if I can contain all this. So let's see if I can contain all this stuff going on in my mind. Um, you know you, you see wilderness programs trying to do a little bit of this. You know they've got a weekly family meeting. They probably have a family weekend or family workshop time that they do and and they're giving, and you know they're giving parents language that you're they're using in the field.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know I want to bust a fab with you or what you know, feeling, action, behavior, right, they're trying to give them, they're giving them these tools and you know, the biggest issue of is, of course, is is that the amount of practice they actually get with it might be restricted to an hour meeting a week and they may not even be using it. They're just doing some check-in. They're like how's it going? What are you doing? Did you do anything new this week? Did you accomplish some of the skills that you're learning there on site or in the program? And then sometimes they get into touching material and they might get the opportunity to use a bit of that language, but it's nothing like every day get up from bed, go to school, wash the dishes, do your chores, etc. I'd say that the problems themselves are fairly common.
Speaker 1:The solutions can be elaborately unique, you know yes and so you know because I have this with the families that I work with as well it happens all the time when they ask you know how do we deal with this situation? And I'll say, well, first of all, and I'll mimic myself talking to their child or their adult child, their adolescent child, and I'll say so, you're, you know, you're a parent, you're going to be saying this to them and I'll say something and they're like holy crap, I need to. Can you say that again? And you write it all down. You know, um, and I've, I've long since forgotten where this comes from. I mean, I haven't forgotten. I could dig it out and be like well, you know, we had this training and we did this. And then you know, I did this training and I did this training. A lot of our process oriented like different methodologies for asking good questions and getting results from people. And you know, heck, every time you get a difficult client, you learn something new about the skills that you have.
Speaker 2:Yes, what do you think? The?
Speaker 1:algorithm is. What's the algorithm on this skill? You know it. You know part of it's like multiple families and years of experience and all these and training upon training and upon training, and you know part of it's like multiple families and years of experience and all these and training upon training and upon training, and you know from philization, facilitation to individual therapy, to like therapeutic, experiential use of therapeutic methodologies, and so on and so on and so on, like there's all kinds of training that you've had and I've had that causes us to have this, like I don't still point, from which this stuff kind of comes. What, what, what is it, man? Can you, can you put a finger on it? Can you tell me, cause I don't know that I could, I don't know if I could do it.
Speaker 2:Kind of. So I do have a unique perspective on this because I was a wilderness therapy kid. Wilderness therapy saved my life. So I've been the student and I've been the guide and I became the therapist and now I'm the trainer. And when you say what's the algorithm, when I look back on each individual section of this, there are a few pieces that must be in place. First, there is the understanding that you can go through every training there is and still run into the scenario where none of it's going to work. You have to develop personal instinct of your personal capabilities, your personal capabilities. Mom is mom and mom shows up in scenario A with this kid with 20 years of crap emotional crap attached to the moment, because mom and the kid, in whatever scenario you want to create, are backtracking neuroscience. So backtracking is where the brain goes into its Rolodex and finds the most relevant response emotionally and reaction emotionally to the scenario that's playing out.
Speaker 1:So those closely matched, familiar scenario that can use to address this situation.
Speaker 2:That is correct. So the kids already emotionally, mentally primed because of their brain, to react or respond to whatever mom's about to say in the mom speech. And then here's the kicker Mom's going to react with her backtrack Boom, here I go. So when you talk about algorithms, step one is to realize that the training gives you an alternative process to adapt to. There's your algorithm Because, for example, when we train families to step back and out of the scenario, there are several techniques, but each individual has to find that works for them to remove the ingrained response and step into a trained response of boom, I'm out and I see what's happening.
Speaker 2:Now my emotions are not going to dictate what's about to happen between my interaction for myself as a parent and the child in front of me, and I'm now assessing them. Step two assess them to their capability to receive information and data from you. Now you have to take all the possibilities you've trained for and move into the one that instinctively feels true, genuine, to you as an individual. That's what the kid's tracking. Are you genuine? Are you just running through a script?
Speaker 1:Are you real?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like you, even brought up like a lot of wilderness programs and boarding schools et cetera. They have family weekends and they do these trainings and things and all of it's great. I'm glad families are getting some basic communication techniques and things like that. But for example, the I feel statements right, basic communication techniques and things like that, but for example the I feel statements right. It's kind of a standard across the board.
Speaker 1:Everyone learns some form or fashion. I need to bust a gab with you right now, Robert. That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right, but here's what like in our professional experience you're going to find in most situations is that kid comes out of that wilderness program and comes home and the parent says I need to bust a gab with you or I? I haven't. I feel, I feel, and they that's as far as they get, I feel and that kid boom emotional reaction because they're back in the woods, right, they're not in the kitchen with you.
Speaker 2:So, for example, it's like great skill, wonderful to use in life, especially with like adult brain to adult brain, like wonderful piece of skill set that you can carry into your life. Now let's talk about your teenager, who is not going to put up with this therapeutic BS that you're now doing to them in their kitchen where they're just trying to get on with their life. And you, how dare you take them back to that experience they had and here's the kicker Even if it was a wonderful experience, if they mastered every level of the program in wilderness and loved their guides, and it was a wonderful experience. They mastered every level of the program in wilderness and loved their guides, and it was a great thing. In the end, it doesn't matter. They go back to the I was removed from my life and now I'm trying to get back to my life.
Speaker 2:So why are you taking me back to the removal in this emotional context? So the algorithm comes down to the individual training to all possibilities and finding their genuine self in the ability to say, okay, I'm now staff mom and staff mom has a job to do, and the ability to do it from a place of genuine interest, connection and understanding that right now, at 8.15 in the morning in the kitchen, when I'm assessing that this kid's a red three, there's no way we're going to accomplish what I want to accomplish right now. So I have to let go of it, step back and then step in and say what do you need right now? And that's the part that's really difficult is the what do you need right now? Because so many people, especially parents, like they're busy, they have a life to live, they need this kid to do their homework, they need this kid to get a fit, they need this kid to park their car, do drugs.
Speaker 2:The parent is driven, usually by a sense of anxiety, to accomplish all the adult things they're tracking, including the safety of the kid. So there really is that algorithmic like okay, yes, what's important to you as an adult is important. How we facilitate that dictates whether or not you can live together as a family. It's the container.
Speaker 1:I think that you know if I think about it as well. You know, part of what happens for me is it's a neurological reroute, right? As opposed to going to this place, the limbic reaction center, right, the place where all the feelings are stored. Especially as a professional, of course, you learn how to set that stuff aside. It, like, you know, this was directed at me and I was going to take it personally. I might feel this way, but then you know, none of that's true, so we're just gonna. What's what's our? What's our goal here? What's our? What is this person?
Speaker 1:They're yelling and screaming, but that means they want something and and they, they're, they're, they've got a need that's not being met. And if we can help figure out how to meet that need, or redefine the need as it gets met, maybe we can get somewhere Right. And it it's all. It's almost like, instead of going to the limbic system, it goes down into, like, the somatic system. That like goes down into your gut, maybe into your heart. You know this region in the chest. It's like uh, you know, man, look I, I don't know what to say right now. I know that you want this. I can't get that to you. Where's the middle ground, where's the solution here? Cause I'm, I'm lost, I don't know what to do for you. The middle ground where's the solution here? Because I'm, I'm lost, I don't know what to do for you, and like just saying that has worked so many times oh yeah um acknowledgement is a skill right absolutely is acknowledgement skill acknowledgement is a skill.
Speaker 2:It is. It's something we train for. Where it's that like? You can say that like, hey, we have to get this done, can we meet in this, etc. Or you can say why aren't you listening to me? I can tell you're not listening. Like, yeah, you, you see the problem. You're acknowledging that they're checked out of this conversation but, notice the tone, notice the body language.
Speaker 2:Even those listening to this can picture me with that tone. And that's the there's so many things to this where it's like that person has reached an emotional level, where they're in a emotional zone. I should say that they cannot not express emotion with their language. So that's the point where it's like when we train staff, it's the feedback and acknowledgement, Like yeah, that kid got you, Ha, ha, they got you. I saw you, your facial expression, your like, et cetera. So then you have that's right.
Speaker 2:And it's like do you know why that kid did that to you? So you learn through feedback from your co-staff and process of oh, that served a purpose. And now I can go back. And what's interesting is that, for example, when we create roadmaps of intervention, we look at the like OK, they got you. Now you have to circle back around, and what usually happens, in most family dynamics at least, is that you show back up with the like hey, you got me, I owe you. Now, right, there's a little bit of like uh-oh, like, here I come. You started the war.
Speaker 2:But when you do a therapeutic intervention strategy, it's to go from the place where they got you to the place of circling back around, to what we call repair work. And in repair work is the process of recognizing and saying hey, you got me, and because of that I know that I got to a space that wasn't helpful and that's not the goal here. I would like to be in this with you. How can we get in this together? So there's now the invitation, and that can be done hundreds of different ways, because it has to be genuine, it has to come from you and your personality and your process, but repair work is one of the key central processes that we do with every family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've done a couple of trainings with families and or a group of parents or a group of basically interested individuals who are out there in the world about how do you resolve conflict and how do you face kind of difficult situations. One of my favorite film examples is S? Uh is is saving private Ryan and well, and there's a scene in saving private private Ryan, um, where you know they're all standing around and there are the guys are arguing right, um and uh, our main character, what's his name? The actor Tom Cruise no.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, we'll get it eventually. Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks, thank you. So Tom Hanks is standing there. He's kind of a perfect character, you know. As an actor he's kind of the perfect guy for this role. You know, he's like the perfect guy for this role. He's like what's the bid up to? All these guys are arguing and they're screaming at each other and they've got their guns out and everything's getting ready to escalate. All of a sudden the whole crowd breaks. He's like what's the bet up to? What's it up to now? You guys are trying to guess what I do at home. What's it up to now? You guys are trying to guess what I do at home. What's it up to now? And he goes I'm a school teacher. And they just like the scene is so beautifully filmed. But they're like the whole thing stops.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know one one. He did something that's just a skillset that you have in this field, which is to ask a question. Yes, a good question, A good question, One that's going to land, One that's got a little investment from everybody involved.
Speaker 2:Right, it was personal and it redirected.
Speaker 1:And it redirected. It's like William Glasser's got this state. This quote says if you want to solve a conflict, focus on something that's not the conflict. And you know, he just kind of does like. If you and I were to kind of look at this scene and and and be the commentators on the side about what's happening from an emotional, behavioral standpoint, I think we could spend an entire hour on this guy when he just what he just did and like how much was there. But you know, being a school teacher also means he probably does his way around being in a classroom and he's able to like quiet the classroom. And he did. He just did the same thing, uh, and it was and it was he read it right.
Speaker 1:He read the proof. It was beautiful um and and getting parents to do that with kids and you're, all you know, rocked and emotional and you've got this neurological pattern that's already established itself and you know very difficult to work yourself out of um. I. I think that that is a it's a challenging skill to have to build and if and unless parents like us get some really direct, you know, immediate, in real time, post-mortem style, like that didn't work yep why didn't it work?
Speaker 1:what can we do to make it work? Like, what's the what's the thing that you can do differently to make it work, and and and it's not just a response in the moment. It's like why are we doing repair work? We're doing repair work to help resolve whatever situation that was, that's true. But we're also doing repair work so that we can prep ourselves and prep the environment for responding to this again when it happens again yes and it's going to happen again and it's going to happen again.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things. Um, on our podcast, we actually have an episode. I think it's coming up. Wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Hold on, I've never been invited to the podcast. What's going on? You will be.
Speaker 2:It's part of the new project that's launching. So we have the Experiential Healing Institute, which is the, like you said, boots on the ground. We fly worldwide. We put people on the ground to do two-day trainings with families and kind of build plans with coaching and things like that, all the way up to people that are on site for weeks at a time. Helping and working with families Like the EHI is really the custom-built program at home. So some families use it to try to prevent their kid from ever being sent away. Other families set us up where we build the container with them for when the kid comes home. That's the like really high needs, high focus, et cetera.
Speaker 2:But we have a podcast called Parenting Problems.
Speaker 2:Today that's part of the, I'm going to say, spinoff company that we're all founding from our organizations et cetera, where parenttrainerscom is going to be a family-focused community platform for all ages where parents can come in, and it's called Parent Trainers because it's parents and trainers.
Speaker 2:It's the professionals and the parents coming together in one platform to ask questions, share stories, receive feedback, get ideas for resourcing and for finding out different skill sets that can be used. It's just a sharing platform to really hone in on. Here are some things that have worked for others that you maybe never would have considered. So it's we have online training courses that are pre-recorded for families to watch on subjects that are important to them, or trying to get the basics of language and technique down, because that, I'll be honest, in both of these worlds for us, so many families fail I'm going to use that word, and that's a whole other podcast episode they fail at their goal, I should say, of achieving behavioral or mental health change for their child and family system. That prevention happens because of pre-programming as a human being. So, for example, they try something once and that's what our podcast episode is on like Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1:That didn't work.
Speaker 2:No, that is a recipe for failure. It's about showing up with the I know what I'm building but I've got, let's say, seven years of neurological programming for this kid and myself in a way that we normally handle it. That's non-functional. I have to work for that. That's not going to be a one-time done thing. You have to try this over and over and over again, adapting until you have a genuine presentation of the skill with a genuine response and openness to what your child is presenting with. So we're talking about over and over and over, just like when we were staff. Right, we were trained. We failed miserably the first 10 times.
Speaker 2:We did it and then suddenly we had success. Then we have to look at that success and say that time it worked 5% better. Okay, something changed in how I said it, my presentation, my tone, my body language, sometimes the environment, sometimes the carrots that we put out there of like genuine connection and friendship, whatever it might be. So, yeah, I guess that's what ability you know that's right to specify to the listener.
Speaker 2:Today I'm showing up from the EHI. You and I have worked for years together in that practice. That's connected to boarding schools and wilderness programs and hospitals and et cetera. That work is very intensive because by the time you get to those programs or considering those programs, you've reached the point where just doing some coaching is probably not going to be as fast as most families want things to work, which is why we come and we do in-person trainings for two, three, four days. Family intervention strategies, work with the kid, the siblings, everyone. That program is built out for that level, whereas parenttrainerscom is going to be for everyone Parents that are coming into the tween, teen, young adult arenas of change where it's like, hey, I've got a question, we didn't expect this. And sharing ideas and attending our live training events like Todd will have you on one day as going live to the community to present on something. But what we don't want is to be just psycho-ed.
Speaker 1:I mean, people can Google what autism is for example, but for us the platform is.
Speaker 2:my kid keeps doing this response. How can I work with their brain to change this, this and this that's what we're looking for is like okay, we got a scenario. Let's look at the possible outcomes and strategies for intervention over time where, over the next six months, you're going to do this, this and this Mom's job is this, this and this Mom's job is this. Dad's job, is this grandma's job is this, et cetera, to get you to this place.
Speaker 1:Brother sister.
Speaker 2:Trainers to be accessible, like it'll be affordable for everyone to come in and do group coaching and you receive some live trainings, and then there'll be video packages and things that people can buy to get their more specific what they're looking for. But it's really going to come down to when we, sorry, switch gears back into what we're talking about. It's the family realizing that you do need a base level of skill.
Speaker 2:I don't care if you're at the EHI point or the parenttrainerscom point, it doesn't matter. Families that start to realize there's a problem. Before you step in to solve the problem, you need a base level of language technique, body language technique, different verbal and sorry outlined intervention strategies for a week, six weeks, a month, whatever it might be. This isn't a I'm going to do this and it's going to solve it. It's a I'm going to do this today and this in a week and that in six weeks, and then we're going to get to where we want to be in six months. That's what we're really talking about. Here is not a one and done, it's a. My kid's struggling. It's neurological or behavioral or both, and I need a strategy to get from where we are and get. And here's the key Not the kid, Not fixing the kid, I'm fixing the container. That's what programs are.
Speaker 1:And the interface Just containers. I'm changing the interface.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:And that includes siblings, grandparents, parents, everyone involved in this kid's life, the family system, robert, is that what we're talking?
Speaker 2:about All of it. But I want to be clear about that. It's not just the family. We say container because I mean heck the number of times I've found a kid that and tell me you've probably heard the story a thousand times. They're great at school.
Speaker 1:At school they're perfect angels.
Speaker 2:And then they come home and hell breaks loose. You hear that story. I had a call this morning with a family that's looking to work with us. That that's the story. They're like what's wrong with us? And I go well at school. They have boundaries and consequences and teachers that get out their level, it's got a good container.
Speaker 2:All these things, I was like that is what we need to build at home. We need to look at it and go. The problem, the labeled problem, is not that school is fine and they're not good at home, that school is fine and they're not good at home. The actual underlying behavioral system then, if we break it down, is to look and say what's different between home and school and how do we get those closer together. So it's really about doing a full assessment on the whole container, not just the family system. Well, and you're also talking- about.
Speaker 1:You're also talking about um. Very like these individualized tools, you're taking years worth of experience and training and everything else and given the family tools that are ultimately theirs. It's like in dbt, it's like well they're you know, however many now worth, of dbt, various level, various skills, you're going to pick out three of those that work for you and then you're going to make them yours.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean like yeah, that's it, that's our whole job.
Speaker 1:And you're, you're, I'm going to tell on you. You're old enough to remember this movie. But you know john kuzak better off dead. His dad's sitting there trying to like connect with him and he's reading out a book. He's like right off man, like you know he gets all the wording wrong. But you know his son sees him trying. He's like okay, um, but you know you can't do that in a behavioral situation. You're not going to be pulling things right out of a book. Um, I remember being, you know, green field guide coming in and you know, at the time, in that environment, this is what early 90s, they gave us glasser, which was actually not bad, like they give us william glasser as the you know reality therapy, reality testing methodology as our processing model.
Speaker 1:And of course, here's the book. Read the book, want you to practice it. This is how you practice this. And they gave us the training around it, but it, I mean nine months. It took me before I realized. You know, I did the. I had to like head slap, kind of like holy cow. This works, yes, and let me, let me use it in ways that aren't just these scripted formats, but let me find ways to continue to kind of stay in the parameter of what this model is naming, but use language that's common for this kid in a way that they can hear it. Find a good question to ask them. Find a good reality test that's going to land with them. Do all these things and also not be so emotionally triggered because you're in this intense situation that you can actually think and do that.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it really comes down to making it yours. You're absolutely like, I don't care who you are out there that's listening to this. You know how many kids you have or what's going on for your kid. Your kid can tell when you're following a script oh 100 100.
Speaker 2:Okay, kids are programmed to recognize patterns. It's how they learn to maneuver through the world. And that's little kids. But I mean, our specialty is tweens, teens and young adults all the way through adults that are going through it, and at that point they've learned enough. By the time they're a tween, they know enough to manipulate the system. You know we talk about like the kid that knows every one of your buttons. Well, they do by that point. So when you show up with this, like, oh, I have a new skill, I'm going to start saying it and it's like very robotic, robotic, that's not going to work. And again going back to like, don't do it once, do it until it's just natural for you to do it your way. That's when change can happen, because now, if you're different, they can be different even if your words don't change your approach changes you's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can even follow the script verbatim, but it's not choking out. It's like oh, I just said that without thinking and they took it without thinking because there was no context to recognize that something weird or different is happening. It's just our new normal, and it's so important to reach that place which takes practice, feedback, practice, feedback, practice, feedback, practice, feedback, and then suddenly one day you don't even realize you're doing it, it just becomes normal. It's the new normal for the whole family that's communicating that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it becomes a part of you, part of the language that you use and part of the way that you speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it becomes a part of you, part of the language that you use and part of the way that you speak. One of the biggest keys to change in a behavioral pattern within a system is surprise, because if you go at it very clinically, it's very much like what are you doing? You sound weird, why are you saying that? I don't want to do it? Right, it's very reactive when someone can tell that you're doing something that's very not natural for you, whereas adding in an element where you go okay, you have the skill you need to hide it. One of the best ways to hide something is within surprise.
Speaker 2:So, for example, one of the most successful stories I have of a family that completely changed their communication patterns in the home was they started having a family meeting with the sibling and the identified like the daughter that was struggling a lot with like being in the family and was having a lot of behavioral issues and mom and dad and we talked about the skills and like they were saying, like well, she always can tell when we're trying to like emote and connect with her and she shuts that down.
Speaker 2:And I was like OK, well, tell me something that she really loves to do.
Speaker 2:And they're like well, she's an artist, she always loves to do art, but anytime she can that's how she gets her feelings out is through art. And I say great, from now on you're going to have this family meeting once a week and and you're going to show up and there's going to be face paints of all colors and bowls on the table, and the rule is you're only allowed to talk when someone else is painting your face. And sure enough, every single one of them started to meet and then dad would say I have something that I need to talk about with everyone, and he would close his eyes and all three of them would paint his face. How, like what was coming up for them while he was talking? And the girl had ADHD, so guess what? She's completely painting his face and she took in verbatim everything he said and could repeat it back and reflect it at the end of that sharing, and it totally changed everything for that family. So I know that sounds absurd, but that's what we need.
Speaker 1:That's the kind of thing that you need.
Speaker 2:We need an element of not normal to be a part of whatever intervention or strategy you're going to come up with, and it's one of my favorite things to teach families and get into. But surprise is, your is one of the most powerful things you can do to build relationship change patterns and I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, do something you haven't done already. Yeah, no, be creative, and that kind of thing. I mean I think I think about that story and it's like the what's the quote? The being heard is the psychological equivalent of breathing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like all of a sudden the parents feel heard by their child which they've been scraping. They feel like you know they're dying because their child can't hear them and all of a sudden they have. This experience must've been amazing. Well, mr Robert, we did find something to talk about. I had little doubt. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. This has been mental health matters on WPBM 1037, the voice of actual Mr Robert Trout with the experiential healing Institute. Thank you, sir, for being with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, we'll be you next time.