Mental Health Matters
Todd Weatherly, Therapeutic Consultant and mental health professional hosts #MentalHealthMatters. Interviewing doctors and therapists, treatment professionals, organizational leaders, and other members of the mental health community about the importance of mental health awareness, treatment and the future of addressing mental health in the US. Discussing how to support mental health in our communities from hospitals to the dinner table and what to do when crisis arises.
Mental Health Matters
Resilient Leadership in Mental Health with Sue Polston
From trauma and incarceration to leading a transformative organization, Sue Polston's journey is nothing short of inspiring. In our latest episode of Mental Health Matters, we sit down with the Executive Director of Sunrise Community for Recovery and Wellness, to explore how her personal challenges have shaped her as a leader of their peer support network. Sue's story is a powerful testament to resilience and the potential of peer support in mental health care. By sharing her lived experiences, Sue highlights the undeniable value of peer support, often overlooked and underfunded, yet crucial in empowering others on their recovery journeys.
Our conversation also delves into the systemic issues plaguing mental health care, such as the disconnect between government initiatives and the palpable needs of disenfranchised communities. Sue candidly discusses the hurdles nonprofits face, from resource constraints to the necessity of a continuous, long-term approach in treatment and recovery. Her rise from a volunteer role to executive director showcases the significance of community, passion, and perseverance in both personal and professional arenas.
Finally, we shine a light on the critical shortage of therapists, long waitlists, and the overwhelming caseloads impacting mental health professionals. Sue emphasizes the need for better compensation and support for these unsung heroes, whose work is vital yet often undervalued. Join us as we express our gratitude to Sue for her invaluable insights and invite you to tune in to future episodes for more compelling discussions on mental health and recovery.
Hello folks, welcome once again to Mental Health Matters. On WPVM 1037, the Voice of Asheville, I'm Todd Weatherly, your host, therapeutic consultant and behavioral health professional. I have with me today a tremendous resource in our community. I'm so glad that she agreed to be on the show today and it's somebody that has been helping us in this after disaster period we've been experiencing in western North Carolina. I'm joined today by Sue Polston.
Speaker 1:Sue serves as the Executive Director of Sunrise Community for Recovery and Wellness right here in downtown Asheville, a nonprofit based in western North Carolina and dedicated to fostering whole-person wellness. Sunrise's mission is creating community through shared live experience focused on whole person wellness through education, resource navigation and authentic peer support for all, which is we have very similar roles. We'll talk about that as we get it down to it, but Sue herself is a certified peer support specialist at CPSS. Here in North Carolina, everybody has a little bit of a title for it, but we call it a CPSS. She brings her own lived experience to her role, having overcome significant challenges related to trauma. Her journey included challenges with mental health, substance use, incarceration, unhealthy relationships, including domestic violence, homelessness and the loss of her children. Homelessness and the loss of her children. Sue's resilience and commitment to healing over the last decade, plus what is what inspires her to her leadership, and she works to empower others to build a supportive and inclusive community. Sue, thanks so much for being on the show. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Great Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well, you know we were talking, we were discussing a little bit. It's just, I know a lot of folks who are CPSS folks. They're Certified Peer Support Specialists. We probably know a lot of the same, some of the same folks. And so and some of the same folks that come around and are working with you guys over at Sunrise and now you're down in West Asheville right now. Is that right? Is that your office?
Speaker 2:We're in East Asheville now.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're in East Asheville now. Okay, I've got to catch up here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, we've done some moving.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:For all different reasons, mostly not of our own. Either we've grown fast and needed a bigger space or stigmatism.
Speaker 1:Reared its ugly head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, reared its ugly head and we were kind of forced out of a couple of locations. We are fortunate to have some amazing property owners and property managers that wanted us here and love us here. And we are on Tonal Road, right next to IHOP and right next to Compass Point Village.
Speaker 1:We're right in the middle at the old mattress man, our mattress man on Tonal Road, right next to IHOP and right next to Compass Point Village. We're right in the middle at the old mattress man or mattress. Oh, right, right, so it's still not that far from downtown, like it's really kind of walking distance If you carry your own horn to go through the bridge, right, yeah, exactly. Well, you know, I I'm I'm always curious because I don't think that, as evidenced by your NIMBYs, not my backyard people, um, that are not, that are not tolerant, don't understand um kind of treatment. There's community-based treatment and I work in the private pay-based treatment industry where people can afford to pay for what I would call appropriate and substantive care. Otherwise, you're kind of trying to figure out the system, trying to figure out where you can get help. Oftentimes that help is not enough. There's the term the system is broken is used very often. I would say the system was never truly functional, so I don't know from what state it was actually broken.
Speaker 1:It's never been something that was a reliable resource in the first place, which kind of points at the nature of mental health care in our country, which is stigmatized out of sight, out of mind, is kind of the approach.
Speaker 1:If you're not, you know, if you're not wielding a gun or a knife trying to hurt yourself or someone else and are basically not causing trouble for the public in some way, then your mental health must be fine and we don't really care.
Speaker 1:That's kind of where I would say that that's roughly our society's take on mental health. That's how we treat it in this country, and I think that part of that is how peer support specialists came about, that there was this tremendous resource, one that wasn't necessarily, like master's, trained or educated, wasn't necessarily a licensed therapist, but was definitely a person who had lived experience, knew how to support people having a lived experience, knew how to support people having a lived experience. And you know the CPSS system, like the certification system, came about and probably in my mind you I would like to hear your thoughts about this it's still a little bit underutilized and underfunded, but is a tremendous resource where many gaps occur. So if you, if you're willing, like, tell us a little bit about how you, how you got to the role Like part of that's your lived experience, part of that's becoming a certified peer support specialist. Tell us a little bit of your story. I'd like to hear it, um cause I think people need to hear those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I actually um, come from a um, a long time of incarceration, mental health, substance use, crack was my drug of choice and it had me doing things, took me places. I didn't want to go Like it. Just it really took over my life. The substance use part, and when I say about 12 to 15 years of in and out of active addiction, in and out of different treatments that was available, or here, 12 step, is the only way. You need a sponsor. You need to go to third meetings like this was it, this was, and when I wasn't able to succeed, I failed, right and so they were barely addressing the mental health stuff.
Speaker 1:That was. That was it. I had no idea.
Speaker 2:I had no idea for a long time that I need that. Mental health was the problem. Right was was the four. I just thought like, oh, I just happen to try crack and like it a lot. And now look at me, you know, never mind, nevermind the court Things are great, so I started smoking crack.
Speaker 1:Never.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't until it's been 11 and a half years ago was the last time I entered Buncombe County Jail or any facility with a criminal charge.
Speaker 2:And I was at the point where I knew like I just knew that if I didn't change everything, like I would just continue to keep coming back, I was 36 in jail one more time, and I was looking at a significant for me at at that time it was like two and a half years worth of time and I thought, if I, if I don't do something different, I definitely I'm gonna keep coming back and or die right.
Speaker 2:And so I, at that point, I guess I took all the little seeds that had been planted over those 12 to 15 years you know, like a gratitude list, killing people, making amends, like just all the little seeds that I'd picked up and I started to implement them and realized that the core of all this was my mental health. And if I did not address my mental health at the same time I was addressing substances, if I did not address my mental health at the same time I was addressing substances, nothing was going to change. Because for so many years and I did it so good too I would get to the place where I was able to stop using substances, usually because I was in jail. I would get out, I'd have a good mindset, but eventually I would lead right back to the substance.
Speaker 2:The stressors of life that, come you know, yeah, like you know, one of my big triggers of back in the day is getting overwhelmed, like a young 20 year old like I would walk in circles, unable to make decisions, basic decisions, you know, and I didn't know that I'm 47 now, but I didn't know that then. But so, yeah, being able to to now sit in jail 11 and a half years ago, realize I needed to do everything differently, and that also meant I needed to look at my mental health, and so I was fortunate to have been given the opportunity to get in and be part of the Buncombe County Drug Treat court. Um, and so I. I was again, I don't know how I was, uh, lucky enough to gain access to important life-saving services because not everybody can um, but I did and I got in there, I graduated, I've I've done all the.
Speaker 2:you know I was doing all the things prior to that. Let me back up. I was in treatment. So I was in jail for four and a half months. Drug court said we want you in drug court, but you need long-term treatment. So they sent me to a 90 day treatment facility. While I was there, it was it's in black mountain, it's through the, the prison system. But while I was there, my, my counselor, she said, hey, what about a peer support specialist? And I was like, hey, I don't even know what that is.
Speaker 1:You know, like you know.
Speaker 2:And so she pulled it up and she was like it's a person with lived experience who's overcoming you know, and I'm like, oh my God. I just lit up on the inside Like I knew in that moment that was what my goal and that's what I wanted to do Prior to that. I always wanted to be a substance use counselor. I could never keep my stuff together long enough to be able to accomplish that goal. But when I found out about this, the peer support and like being just true to who you are and your record your record is now your resume, like all of that was just like heck yeah, like I can't believe this is really cause.
Speaker 2:Prior to this I had I went to school and I'm a hairdresser. I'm a licensed hairdresser, you know, I had skills and things to do, but like I have arthritis and so like it kind of all lined up to where I no longer had to like physically work, but then do this peer support stuff. So I was like heck yeah, let's do it. Get out um do the drug court thing, the recovery housing, um all the things, um 12-step meetings, sponsor, um emdr.
Speaker 2:I did do that yeah and I can't say for sure if that's what you know helped or didn't help. But here I am, almost 12 years later, without um using substances again. So I'm going to take it as there's no silver bullet, right they all come together to work with one another in some fashion.
Speaker 1:You you know in that case you know what you're saying is it was enough to get you, get you to the place where you wanted to be and get you the role you're in now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I did. I became the certified peer support specialist. I started at one of our local community mental health agencies as a peer that led groups and went on activity and did activities with the psychosocial rehabilitative group TSR. Sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, part of the ACT team, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I did that for a couple of years. And then there was, like this new let me back up when I was in my peer support training there was. They called them lunch and learns and individuals would come in and tell us about the programs of which peers were utilized.
Speaker 2:One of them was kevin mahoney oh yeah he was telling us all about sunrise and this was a volunteer peer support uh organization and I was just like. I looked at my friend, I was like we're gonna have to get to know this guy. He's like the peer support God. So fast forward, sunrise becomes an actual entity and organization and opened its doors in 2016.
Speaker 1:It was a fire starter that Kevin.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I love Kevin he. So the doors opened in 2016. I became a volunteer and did some work at AHOPE on the weekends through Sunrise as a volunteer. Well, they had a position open and I was like, oh my God, let me try. Like full of fear of change and everything, but let me just try this. Just aligned with where I was most passionate, right, and so I got the job. It was a program coordinator. Where I was most passionate, right, and so I got the job. It was a program coordinator. I was one of two full-time employees, so it was me, my friend Gina and then Kevin for 10 hours a week.
Speaker 2:As he continued to work over at RHA on the act team. So yeah, so that's how it started January of 2017. I took on a full-time with Sunrise. Like I said, I was a program coordinator. I then became the respite team lead, Then I became an operations director and then Kevin had some health issues going on. I had to take a step back and then I went into his role as the executive director and that was back in 2019.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah. So back in 2019, we actually then grew. So we grew a little bit, grew a little bit. You know, there's two of us when I started, then there was five of us a year later and now there's 54 of us. Wow, 54. Yes.
Speaker 1:That's really great.
Speaker 2:Yes, we got to open the door on a $50,000 grant that was given to us to uh as a RCO pass through. So RCO is a recovery community organization.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so we got the RCC funding through an entity out. Uh, out East we get to, we hold that program program. Now we give out the pass-through funding for other rccs. So it's a full circle uh for the state or for the area, like well from uh, the goal is for the whole state, but I learned the hard way that we do not want to grow faster than we can yeah, yeah, then we have the capacity to get painful, can it?
Speaker 2:oh gosh, oh we. Uh, I'm alive, and breathing, still. So I made it well done yeah um, but yeah, so uh, from wilkes and charlotte charlotte all the way to the koala boundary, we cover all those counties, okay yeah, and when you say 54 they all serve western north carolina, or they?
Speaker 1:are they All the way to the Koala boundary? We cover all those counties, okay, yeah, and when you say 54, they all serve Western North Carolina, or are they? Are they? You know, mostly Asheville, mostly Asheville, right?
Speaker 2:Our home base is on total road. That's our main hub, and then we have nine other Nine or 10 other programs Sorry, we've had some ins and outs right now going on um, that mostly are home-based. Out of ashville we have a couple of programs that are well. We have uh, three, four staff out in cherokee.
Speaker 2:So, on the reservation, okay yep, we have a koala boundaries and band of cherokee re-entry program and we we have a drop in center that we're looking to open the doors any, any moment. So we have duplicated what we have here, right On the boundary, for our native folks. And then we have another ARC program that is in four rural counties, which is like Polk, rutherford, mcdowell and forget.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, haywood right.
Speaker 2:No God, it's Polk Rutherford McDowell. I might have to look it up now.
Speaker 1:Kryon's Polk, Rutherford, McDowell, All the South Carolina line counties yeah, here we go Cleveland. Cleveland County.
Speaker 2:There we go, that's it and so we're in those counties too, our staff are in those counties. The other piece where, like in Charlotte and Wilkes, the other RCCs that are, that we provide technical assistance and pass through funding to. They're not our employees but we partner with and and you know and stuff. But right.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, and so you got some. You got some pass-through funding. Is that? Does that funding repeat every year? Do you give them your outcomes and show what you've been doing and then, theoretically, you might get that money back again next year? Is that true? You? Are you fundraising for what next year looks like? We don't. You're right. I mean, you know the legislation you don't know right.
Speaker 2:So we're grant chasers. We are like 90 something percent grant funded with a touch of donations, yeah Right. And so every year it's always up for bid whether we're going to get funding or not. That is that we've been in the right places at the right times with the right funding, with between COVID funding and the additional substance use block grant funds and all that, we've just been in a line and been able to like capture. But also because of the work that our team does right, like we. We do really great work and we do provide the outcomes above and beyond. And so, in my opinion, the state. So these are federal. Our biggest grant is our RCO that provides the pass through and that is substance use block grant funds. So that is given to the state and then we contract with the state for that, with the state for that when I first.
Speaker 1:That was my very first executive director. Grant submission was for this project. Felt good to get it boarded, didn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was so. That was 2019. And we got $375,000 and we were stinking rich Like we were like like gonna expand and like we had this past year, and it's still looking good for this next fiscal year.
Speaker 2:Um, it's at 2.9 million same that's awesome yeah, same funding, same all that um in 20, where are we at 24? In j July of 2023, we did. We got a pretty significant increase. It doubled what we, we were working and increasing every year since 2019, you know a little bit out of time, but two years ago well, 2023's fiscal year, I guess, I don't know they were like we have more money, what do do you need? And we gave them a big old wish list and they gave us most of what we asked for well, and it sounds like there was.
Speaker 1:You know there's a fairly sizable funding initiative that happened at the state level. You know millions of dollars that were being spread out through different you know either agencies or grant. You know grant requests there's even still some of that grant stuff that's out there now to give agencies like yours money to do the programming they do. And you know it sounds like you've done really good things with your money. Is it enough Like? Are you getting what you need?
Speaker 2:I mean I think I know the answer to this question, but the need is so significant I couldn't even put a dollar amount on it yeah like the yeah, we have significant amount of fun. Like. Our total operating um annual budget is estimated right now at like 4.9 million um. The need is beyond that. Like if we doubled that, the need still wouldn't be captured like. It meant yes, like for example, one of our programs is called a housing program, but it's not.
Speaker 2:It's not independent housing, it's recovery housing so temporary housing, sober living quasi sober living yeah yep, so, um, that need is so and I just pick on that because it's one of our little smaller program out of the bigger one and the need, like our two peer navigators that are over that program. We have to check in with them constantly, like to make sure they're not getting overwhelmed. And they're not, because they have to say no so many times and it's like heartbreaking and then they also just they're not machines and they could literally just sit there and hand out money, hand out money and do the thing you know like, and it just would never be enough.
Speaker 1:My wife's the executive director of Evelyn charity, so we have an idea of what you're talking about. So, we've been seeing a lot of the same thing. You know we're just, you know there's no end of the need. Yeah, and it's very challenging to kind of address the community's need because the infrastructure is not there and the resources aren't there. And you know it feels like you're you know as well, as well funded as you might be for the programming you do, you still feel like you're putting band-aids on things that's it.
Speaker 2:That's it, and uh, we won't even backtrack. You probably don't want to put this I'm going to edit this out, but I just want to say it out loud that whole shelter thing that we did a few years ago, yeah, with the city, that was a bunch of crap, band-aid, but anyway yeah, that is notorious for the city and its approach to anything yeah, and its approach to the disenfranchised, uh, people who are either homeless or next to homelessness, like the, the, the, what they put towards addressing that need.
Speaker 1:It's like you know I, you know they'll, you know they'll roll over for a new hotel, but they'll cut every dollar when it comes to addressing their own population in need. And I'd love to say that, helene, maybe have changed that that so many people fell into need that they addressed that they had to reconsider how they're addressing that problem. I just don't think they have. I don't see any evidence that that's true so, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I feel like, again, this is totally off the record. I feel like what they're doing right now is the same crap they did then, is they was throwing three hundred thousand dollars at the problem, yeah, and then handing it to the mission now to handle, and then to the mission. At the end of the day, the mission is the bad folks that put them back on the street. That's how it got handled with Sunrise and the Ramada, right, yes, so anyways, all right, let me rebalance.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, if you look at it from a, I mean, you know is pbm, so we're okay, we're okay saying things that are true, yeah, yeah, and you know. It's like it's regardless of the regardless of what you know candidate you voted for, or what you know president was in power or anything else. This problem's been existing for a very long time and hasn't really changed. We're talking about the lack of infrastructure to handle the need.
Speaker 1:And then we're talking about organizing the entity like the state or the county or the city, and they you know they've been doing this for a very long time they find a contractor and that contractor can fulfill the need for cheaper than they can do it themselves. So great, Pay a contractor, you know, throw money at the contractor makes our budget look good, and then whatever problems exist is like I don't know, must be the contractor's fault.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And what you did is you had somebody who um, either they were, they were um wanting to do something and of good intent, and didn't realize what they were faced with.
Speaker 2:And I.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot of people in that run, small nonprofits that find themselves in that spot. It's like I meant to do. Good, my gosh, I had no idea and it's really not enough. Or you've got, you know, you've got larger corporate entities that are running the numbers and you know, taking Medicaid billing and Medicaid dollars and that sort of thing, and you know their higher ups, their corporates, are making plenty but they're still not able to truly address the need because the amount they allocate for one they didn't allocate appropriately and, two, the amount they allocate for the number that they determined to be the number of people is not enough. It's not.
Speaker 1:Like you know, and I certainly run into you know, there are, via health and RHA, folks that I think are wonderful, great people. I've run into them all the time. But you know overall they are not enough. They they failed to support people that need the support in a substantive way, and I, you know I've even got clients that are. You know they fortunately they're my clients have trust funds and that they're able to kind of scoot by. But people very quickly fall into the gap, or they fall into a hole or they fall back into crisis or they fall back into addiction because the support they're receiving is not enough. What I know and what you probably can affirm, you know, working with individuals who, who have enough resources to go through a treatment process, I tell my, I tell the people that I talk to my clients I said, look, you're looking at two years of treatment. You're looking at residential care and then stepping down with support, probably doing some PHP, iop, some kind of clinical care support. That person's going to have to have groups and coaches and support features and sober living, and they're, you know, you're looking at two years worth of this journey to even feel like they can stand back on their feet again. And then they've got to face this. Who am I now After this, after a life altering series of events, I could see that I'm talking your language. You know it's like you know and if you, if you clock the time, you know you can do it. You can do it from start to finish If you want. We all know that recovery is not a linear process and many people do not do it from start to finish. You know they, they take some sideways journeys.
Speaker 1:Um, as one of my friends likes to say, I had to do some more field research. Yeah, um, and so you know I I think that you know met it. I started off in the field in 1994, so I I worked as a field counselor to where I met my wife. Um, I started off as a field counselor working for a wilderness program that was taking inner city kids from charlotte court, referred kids, you know, drugs and carjacking and theft and you know going to get crack for mom, and like those were my kids.
Speaker 1:Um, and what happened was is that we had a it was a nine to 12 month program, um, and then Medicaid came in with managed care and managed care started putting treatment periods right on, on on. They took medical health treatment periods and put them on behavioral health and so, you know, a 12-month program turned into a 90-day program. Six-month program turned a month-long program and all the sudden, you had, you know, for a program that was designed to work as a group support model. You know, kids were there long enough to get stable, have a culture, and you could rely on them to help manage new group members coming in. It's like look, this is the way this works, let's break you in, but if nobody has, nobody's in, nobody has the culture and nobody's stable enough. You all you got is crisis all the time. Well, you're just chaos. I mean it's chaos.
Speaker 1:And so I really think that that's just one example of what the world has done, the Medicaid funding system has done with all the community-based support and hospitals. You know, hospitals are like three to seven days back on the street. Yeah, Little IOP. I, as a person I'm sure, spent some time in the hospital and then got put on the street. Do you think an IOP was going to be enough?
Speaker 2:No, um, and just to clarify too uh, my, my mom, like my mom, was always like you need long-term treatment, you need this, this and this, and I'll tell you that freaked me out, actually the minute somebody told me I needed to stop for a year of my life, like I was, like that's not for me.
Speaker 1:Well, I tell people all the time. I was like look the people that you see going through treatment. That is one of the bravest things a human being will ever do. It's like tell you what you need to go, stop everything you've been doing. And then you got to get a bunch of people standing around you to tell you everything that's wrong and how you need to be going right again and what you need to do and kind of dig out all your deepest secrets and your traumas and your everything else.
Speaker 2:It's like if you, if your response to that is an absolute terror right I don't know who you are right um but to look back now and to see, like when I got to that place where I knew like I needed to do whatever, anyone told me because I no longer wanted to go back to that place where I knew like I needed to do whatever anyone told me because I no longer wanted to go back to that, yeah, yeah then yeah, that two years in drug court seemed perfectly fine yeah, you know, so I don't know everybody's recovering.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think everybody makes like, yeah, your recovery, you make it. There's a time when you make a choice, like every person. Until they make that choice right, you can, you can string them through care. I think that people getting help is still beneficial in some way. Maybe it doesn't take, but it leaves a seed. Maybe that seed will grow into something that becomes them able to make that choice. Finally, I don't want to poo-poo people getting help, even if it doesn't stick.
Speaker 1:I think that your story I wish it doesn't stick, but, um, I think that you are. You know your story. I wish it wasn't so common. I wish it wasn't. You know, it's like I think there are people out in the world who might hear your story and think that it's you know, I mean, there were times when it was absolutely terrible for you and terrifying for you and awful and everything else.
Speaker 1:And it's also incredibly common and it's happening all the time in so many places for hundreds of thousands of people everywhere, millions of people across the country, and people don't understand it. They don't understand that. That's the experience that people have. It really does get that bad for people and and you know making decisions and that bad for people and and you know making decisions and getting help, but it you know you had to, you had to dig your help out, like jail and drug court and be enforced, and all this like there's an easier way, it's a better way, like oh yeah, do better, uh than this, I mean, and I always like to beat myself, you know like the harder, longer, most toughest way possible.
Speaker 2:I still drag myself through that sometimes yeah, yeah, I feel you well.
Speaker 1:So if you were gonna, let me ask you this question if you were gonna, if you had everything you ever wanted, what? What would the system look like?
Speaker 2:access for all, like literally, um, I don't know how, I don't know, like all the intertwines to make it happen, but what I see is there is a lot of professionals that are burnt out, that aren't being taken care of, that aren't, you know, mental health professionals and therapists? You know all the folks within our big teams Like we're humans too, and like we need that self-care. We're humans too, and like we need that self-care. We need to be taken care of and we need to be our best self so that we can give back and be supportive to the rest of the humans that are out here. You know suffering. So I feel like that. One thing I see happening is that like there's not enough therapists right now to create an act team to take on the people that are on waiting lists for months and months and months.
Speaker 2:there's people out here that are not getting access to what they need or even a piece of what they need because, there's nobody to do the service so I don't know if that goes back to we need to as an organization, as an agency or whatever. We need to treat our people better so that they're not burnt out and they're able to show up. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Pay them appropriately too. I mean, I've heard some of the horror stories about how people are compensated and having to manage their own expenses and drive their own car and pay for their own gas and everything else. Having to manage their own expenses and drive their own car and pay for their own gas and everything else. It's just like people are getting. You know you can't, you can't put somebody in what is ultimately a very intense job, but then also nickel and dime them. You know what I mean? Like it's at the very least make sure that they can pay their bills at the end of the day and and get compensated appropriately, like and have money for a massage, or have money for health care Right or health care for that matter, you know what I mean, the ability to go to the doctor and pay the out-of-pocket I mean you know, we're not just talking about, we're not even talking about frill.
Speaker 1:We're talking about the basics here, you know be able to pay for the basics and also like get a massage or have their own therapist yeah you know what I mean, because they're definitely going to need that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I do think that's a huge barrier right now, because that's what I, what I'm like seeing is happening um, out out in the real world right now for our folks that are very much struggling and need access to more than just the psychiatrist. So you know, there's an individual I'm thinking of right now that has literally been on a wait list to get on that team for six months or better and only sees a psychiatrist right now and only has a case manager who's not helping really do anything. But is it that case manager's fault? That case manager probably has 75 clients on their case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is an unmanageable caseload yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm like I don't know how or what the answer is to get it to this way, but I feel like, if we are able to pay and take care of our people, our professionals that are helping other human beings like to continue to show up the best that they can like. I don't know well take care of them.
Speaker 1:Give them resources to help themselves so they feel like they can return to the job. Give them a manageable caseload. Honestly right, give them a job that can that's doable yeah um which means you're increasing cost. But, like I, you're either paying. You're either paying it here. You're paying to put people in jail. That's what you're doing. I mean, we know, we know the comparative figures, we know what it comes down to. It's like you're paying more money, like it is now.
Speaker 2:Or they end up in Broughton or they end up dead because they weren't responded to appropriately or you know, yeah, absolutely. I know the stories, I know they're too many and too frequent.
Speaker 1:But you know it's funny because I ask people that question and a lot of times where they go to is the people who need care and how they should be receiving it and what kind and nature and how much. But your response, I think, is cool. I mean it's different because some of the nature of where you are, but it's like part of what we need to do is take care of our own. Part of this job is also making sure these people who are providing care feel like they're being cared for, feel like they can take care of themselves, and if they can't do that, they just they just burn out.
Speaker 1:you know, we just burn them out and then somebody new comes in and um, you never get a real work culture that allows you know a super experienced person who's been there for years and years and years, like yourself to be able to pass on the lessons and pass on the knowledge and and give them that boost in the arm that they need.
Speaker 1:I'm just so glad, sue, that you're doing the work that you're doing. We're so proud of Sunrise as an agency here. I'll have to get by and be more present over there. I will do that absolutely. I'll bring you lunch or something like that and maybe give a little something for the volunteers and the peer support specialists. That would be a great thing to do, but it has been great having you on the show today. Sue, thank you so much for joining me. This has been wpvm 1037, the voice of ashville. I'm todd weatherly, your host, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:Thanks, sue, take care yeah, thank you, thank you.