Changing the Mental Health Narrative for Children

It’s important to bring mental health language into schools – however, how do you keep it age-appropriate and meaningful?  Dee Nixon founder of Hope4LifeNI and Nadia Lawrence have developed “Uberheroes” – a comic book where children explore the traits of the heroes and villains, create their own stories – and their own characters, as well as discuss the stories with teachers, parents and each other.

About the Show

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YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5dbYRwciNQ3c2hZwpsfxnNIvpijH4S2b 

Today's show is hosted by

Dr Audrey Tang www.draudreyt.com  @draudreyt

and Judith Crosier https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556005102240

Guest Experts

Dee Nixon and Nadia Lawrence

https://hope4lifeni.org.uk/uberheroes-youth-programme/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hello and welcome to Mental Health Matters with me, Dr. Audrey Tang.

SPEAKER_04 0:07

And Media Disclosure.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

This is the show where we talk to people about big topics, but we don't have any hot takes or quick fixes. We go in depth and have conversations that really matter. And today we are talking with Dean Nixon and Nadia Lawrence. Now they are from Hope for Life, Northern Ireland. They have a very special project that they have developed. It is called Uber Heroes. I'll say a little bit more about that later. But what this is is to get young people to talk about mental health. It's a brilliant idea. But in an accessible way, yeah. So we're ex-teachers, and one of the things that I know it's well, actually at the time we weren't having those conversations at all. We were having PSHE. And that wasn't really a big mental health conversation. It would be maybe talk about bullying.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

It was more about behaviours. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, not really what you're feeling or thinking or anything like that at all, actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Well, if it did broach if it did kind of try and broach what children were feeling. Children were very um they they weren't happy to talk about it. They found it awkward. Yeah, they wouldn't get it. No, they didn't really get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

The terminology we use and the terminology they use is completely different. Yeah. So have you I've I've been out teaching for a long time, so it I know more conversations about mental health have come in since that point. But have you ever had to sort of have those lessons where you're talking about quite deep subjects without necessarily the the right language for young people?

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Yeah, and yes, is the art is the short answer. And what I found is that it's very kind of stark and cold. So the lesson would be about oh, I don't know, like friendships breaking up or something. And you'd have to go from maths or you know, music to talking about, and then you they sit on the floor in a circle, and then they'd kind of from cold be expected to talk about things, and they were and it just seemed very um prescriptive and not very organic. And it I really although I'm a massive advocate of you know promoting good mental health and always have been, I never found that those lessons were useful at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah, and even just simply using language as well. So a lot of places started bringing in I would call it quiet time. So after your break, you have five minutes of quiet time, and then we go into the next lesson. This is for primary schools, but some schools are also were then calling it meditation time, which is effectively what it was. You know that word, I know that word. Five-year-old, we're not having meditation time. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Yeah, it's I think it's just confusing to a lot of children.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

So this is why it is such a pleasure to welcome Dee Nixon, the CEO of Hope for Life Northern Ireland, and Nadia Lawrence, she's the youth development director, and they're going to be discussing their lead youth program called Uber Heroes, and this is a superhero-style comic book program, and already it's been delivered to 60,000 children and young people across Northern Ireland for the past six years, which is absolutely incredible. And they also have an online helpline called Ask an Uber Hero a Question, and that question is answered within 24 hours, which is so different because it's so open and friendly compared to Ring the Samaritans Ring Childline, which is a little bit scary, I think, for young people. And um, they have directly supported over 11,000 children and young people across 35 individual mental health issues. So let us bring them on.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Welcome Dear Nadia. It's so nice to have you in the uh studio.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

It's lovely to be here. Thank you for inviting us. Lovely to meet you both.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

Um can you tell us? Um Uber Hero sounds amazing. Can you tell can you tell us how it was created and how does the comic book program work?

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Um, so it was actually it came out of um a training session that we had done with teachers, um, and we had about 50 teachers heads of year principals in these training sessions. Um when I asked them, so what would you say are your greatest stressors? Of course, they mentioned the kids, but not stereotypically why you'd think that. They were really quite nervous. They're not clinicians, they're they're they're trained to teach subjects or you know, general primary school, um, you know, right across multiple subjects, but they indicated that their biggest stressor was the increasing number of children presenting with mental health issues, and and that's not what they're trained to do. So they were really scared in case they were saying, you know, too much, too little, or completely the wrong advice. Yeah, and unfortunately, it was kind of like death by PowerPoint or death by statistics only programs that were really actually being presented to children. Now, I mean, I know as an adult, you know, after a while I switch off with PowerPoint and statistics. So why would you think that would work with children? Um, you know, let's be truthful. So for us, you know, I'm a 60-year-old woman, and how or what do I know of what a 10 or 13 or 16-year-old child, young person is experiencing today. Well, I don't, but they do. So we got a group of 18 um people, so the age range was from eight and the oldest was 23. So we had children, young people, and young adults, which was great. That that breadth of knowledge, but what we had said to them was look, it has to be engaging, there has to be something in that that actually is innovative, creative, and fun. And we need you to go away and come up with an idea of what that might look like as a vehicle to kind of hang the lessons and the learning off. So they went away, they came back, our team did the same, and it was one thing that we both said in common, and that was using superhero style comics. Because the heroes will they represent all of those, you know, those core basic skill sets to build resilience and well-being and to have that kind of if you like foundation. Um, and then the villains will they represent all of those negative things that are affecting you. But actually, it is so innovative in the sense that quite a number of of children were able to instead of just saying, Well, I want to call it this name, and that's the only thing they said, they actually did um a creative treatment based on how that particular issue or circumstance had negatively affected them. So it's just such a powerful, powerful tool when you go into schools because it just connects with kids in a completely different way. And when you actually look at uh the fact that we all agreed that they had to be real stories of real children living in Northern Ireland and their lived experiences, there had to be credibility in that as well. And we knew then that for us we needed something that kind of covered everybody's learning because we all have different ways of learning, and obviously we wanted children on you know the spectrum, you know, whether that was neurodiverse, whether that was ASD or whatever, we knew we wanted to engage with all of them in different ways they could learn through this really highly innovative product. Um you know the fact that we use stories, there is a higher level of retention recall in children and young people. They will remember stories quicker than they will remember other things. And we've you know worked with children in P7, and then the next time we've met them is maybe year 10, and they can recall who the characters were in the story.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

So the the stories then, everything is based around stories. Um they're created by your team or are they suggested by your readers, or how do you come up with them?

SPEAKER_05 8:53

Yeah, so storytelling is such a powerful tool, and if only our team could take on all of those stories, but no, we cannot take credit. Um, the themes that each comic book covers are suggested by the kids who have read the comics in the past. So we do pre- and post surveys for every workshop that we hold, and in those surveys we ask what comics do we not have that you really would like. Um so via those surveys and via the website, the kids and the young people can suggest the next story topics that they want us to cover, and then it's our job to go out and source where those come from, which is actually how I met Dee and Hope for Life. Um I met them quite organically. I was working in another organization at the time, and Hope for Life had come to us to in the hope of working with a group of young people that I had a duty of care to kind of care for. Um me at the ripe old age of 21 with mama bear to these young people who had gone through some really challenging times, but unfortunately, we had found that there was different kind of organizations or media outlets that worked tended to approach these young people for a story and take a tagline and then forget that there was a person behind it. So I was getting very protective, not knowing who Hope for Life were, and uh I had code words set up if they wanted me to kick out Hope for Life if they were being too over the top. But thankfully they weren't, and uh, I was able to be present as an advocate for these young people in the interview and then through the comic book creation process before I ever ever worked or even thought of working for Hope for Life. So that happened quite organically, and I got to see how young people suggest the themes, then they source those real people with real stories, and then how much editorial control those real people maintain the whole way through that process.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Okay. I think that's a really beautiful example of collaboration where you've got two groups who absolutely understand their not only their remit, but where the safeguarding comes in, where all of those extra protections come in, and then it's just made for such a beautiful connection. Um so, with that, let's start with you, Nadia. Um, what did you think about the creating of the Uber Heroes characters? So I know um Dee, you've already sort of answered why the comic book became a good idea, but you know, did you sort of go, oh what? Or did you think that? Actually, that's people who are gonna connect with that.

SPEAKER_05 11:23

So initially, um obviously whenever I was in those initial stages of learning what the Uber Heroes was before I was a part of the Hope for Life team, uh, it was a really fun concept to me. That was simply what it was, a really fun concept. But the more that I began to get to know the process of creating the actual Uber heroes and what they stood for, and the methodology and the reasoning for each hero representing something that helps us to maintain our mental well-being, the more like the more you understand, the deeper you want to get into the weeds of it because you see just how innovative it is. Um the kids creating those heroes, they create the heroes and the villains, so it comes directly from the people you're trying to help. They are telling us through the a very artistic method what they need support with, which then enables other children to be able to speak about those challenges by creating a whole new narrative, so it creates that bridge between teachers and parents and us and the kids.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

That's beautiful. And today, just in terms of the characters themselves, your focus is these characters, you create the heroes and the villains. It's not storyline driven, the stories come out of the characters. So, can you tell us a little bit more about how those characters then get brought to life?

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah, the the characters are brought to life, so no adults have actually created any of our characters. So at the very start, that youth committee they created five Uber heroes and 11 villains. We now have around 30 of each, and every one of those have been created by children and young people. So when you're looking at the storyline, then there are villains that naturally would fit in because that's what that young person has said has negatively affected them. And honestly, the depth of thought. So, to give you a very brief idea of what I mean, we have one character called the puppeteer. Um, a young person um was able in that really safe space, because we met for 18 weeks with that initial youth committee, and he was then able to share that he'd actually been abused when he was younger, and he wanted to create this character, and he wanted it to be a puppet because he still felt that his strings were being pulled by the influence of that abuser, even though that man was out of his life now, he was still battling those issues. But the three puppets that he wanted to have at the end of this, you know, all you see by the way, in the comic is the hands and obviously the wooden strats and then the strings, and the three lead characters at the end of those strings, they represent silence, guilt, and shame. Wow, which are the three most powerful tools in any abuser's toolkit. Yes, that's so deep.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

So deep. Such a great way of helping somebody process and be able to voice some of this.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

So And also recognize if they are actually unaware of coercive control and you know that kind of violence and abuse, that gives them an indicator. Well, if somebody's telling me not to tell, maybe because I've been through this comic, I should be I should be nervous here or I should go and speak to an adult. So it it it actually can be a preventative thing as much as it can be for others.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yes, that's what I wanted to ask about how it's used in the school setting. Because obviously you've got the youth committee, they create the characters. How do you then it does do school children get the chance to create characters or do they just read the book? How how does that work?

SPEAKER_05 15:18

So within the school setting, majority of the time these comics are delivered within a school setting. Now, obviously, not all comics would go to all age groups. We're very careful at making sure that it's all age appropriately done. And we have they've built the relationship with those schools to understand and get to know the classes individually to know what comic will best suit that class. So the comic is a really creative tool that is used within the workshop of a school. So it's not the entirety of the program. The we bring the comics in, we introduce the heroes, get the kids to understand what the characters, the heroes, and the villains that they're gonna see in the comic today, what they represent. Uh the kids then read the comic out loud, so they each get characters, and it means that the story is coming alive within the classroom, and the kids have so much fun with it. Because it's okay to have fun when going through the story. We can show respect and we can be engaged and we can still enjoy the process. Then after that, we do the conversation. Now that is the learning part of the workshop. We always ask the kids, look, what are the challenges that this lead character faced? What challenges did you spot that they were going through? So we always talk in the third person and whenever we're talking about these challenges. It's okay, if Jill was experiencing this, what do you think might have been going through Jill's mind? What might she have been feeling? And it means that those young people are able to answer those questions with a security blanket of, well, I'm not talking about what I would think. It's what Jill's feeling. The conversation is completely led by them. So yes, we have the key messages and the key points that we need to get across for safety and for clarity of understanding, depending on the topic. But if those young people are telling us what they noticed, what stood out to them, what they think that lead character might be feeling and how they might behave based on what is going on. Then we flip the script and saying, okay, now we understand what they're facing. What might have changed that situation? What could have been done differently by the lead character, by the people around them, what might have helped the lead character to either prevent this or to get support for it earlier? And again, that's where those young people are trying to problem solve. They're utilizing and developing that skill at in a way of being able to identify this is what Jill could have done, but this is what then they can do should they face anything in the future like that. And we're building mental health action plans and teaching tools and techniques that are practical and relevant to them as a part of that. So it's a real collaboration of identifying tools and techniques, but also showing them practical application.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

And it's led completely by the pupils. So we know we need to get from A to Z. How we go around that as facilitators is all led by where the children are taking us because we know we can we can get back to where we need to be. So it's not a script that we follow, it is very much us reading the room and reacting and responding to the needs of the children within that setting.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

And we are gonna carry on with that concept and that method of implementing mental health tools, just after a tip from Dr. Gus Chavez, who is one of our resident experts.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

We live in a world that glorifies speed, quick results, fast transformations, instant success. But real lasting change takes time. And rushing the process often leads to burnout or giving up entirely. So if you feel like you've like you're behind, you're not. You're on your own path. Going slower doesn't mean you're falling or failing. It often means that you're building something sustainable. So the takeaway is this respect your pace. Trust your process. Because slow progress is still progress.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Welcome back to Mental Health Matters. We are talking with Dean Nixon and Nadia Lawrence of Hope for Life Northern Ireland, and it is fabulous to talk about their lead youth programme, Uber Heroes, which is a whole comic book series driven by young people and created by young people to allow them the voice and the awareness to talk about mental health issues that they're facing. And this comic book approach makes mental health, which can be a very complex and quite adult topic, accessible. And it creates language and it creates narrative for children and young people. So, how have you found it that you've been able to reach young people in a way that I don't know, maybe even a theatre and education project might not have?

SPEAKER_02 20:24

I think from our perspective, one of the things that that we know because we hear the children say it to us, and they repeat that they have done that with their family. So it's a brand new language because instead of using the terminology for you know describing a mental health issue as it stands, like self-harm, suicide ideation, grief, isolation, whatever that may look like, um they start using the name of the character in the comic that actually represents that issue. So, you know, there there may have been times when we have been trying to under get the children to understand the difference between me time and isolating themselves. And a few weeks later we had gone in to deliver another comic, and one of the wee girls came up to me and said, Dee, I was having a wee relicta moment last week. And then I remembered what you'd said, and I realized I'm isolating myself and I shouldn't be good, I shouldn't be allowing relicta to affect me that way. So I stopped. And all of a sudden, she was quite happy to talk about isolating herself because she was using the character name. So the children understand that in the classroom, the teachers also understand it, and when the parents because the comics go home with the children, um, so the parents have an opportunity to begin to understand that language. As well, and we're in the process of kind of creating like almost like a codebreaker book that we could potentially share with you know parents and youth leaders and whatever that actually really explains how this makes it much easier and destigmatizes a lot of the issues that kids just don't want to concern about.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Because you're actually talking about a person, a character who experiences that. And I think that's absolutely great because a child can see that somebody real is actually going through what they're going through, and then you see, as you say, it gives you a whole new narrative. So, Nadia, what have you found? Because you've obviously worked in the youth space before Uber Heroes and after Uber Heroes. So, what have you found using the comic-based program compared to maybe other mediums that other people have said, oh, now you're gonna talk about mental health to young people?

SPEAKER_05 22:58

I think it automatically um disarms people in a really positive way. Because you hear about uh, oh, this organization is gonna come in and do a mental health talk. And I think sometimes, as much as yes, we need to keep talking about mental health and how to look after ourselves, if people look at it a bit like it's a wallpaper, you know what's there, and you forget what they're actually saying, you don't pay attention to it anymore. So the fact that we come in with a comic book, automatically they're saying, How does that make sense? Why are you doing that? And it gives us that opportunity to actually build the relationship at the start to then get them to buy in. So the comic book acts as a hook, um, but also it means that it's more accessible to a range of young people. We all have our own interests, we all have our own preferences, and like Dee had said, we all have our own ways of learning. Whether it be that talking and reading the comic out loud as a class, which is more theatrical, some kids really get into it. So some kids attached to that element, some who are maybe much more reserved, really attached to the the visuals, the artistic nature of it. Um, some love to have a bit of we would say a bit of crack and a bit of banter around it. They like to have a laugh with certain topics, and we can show that we have a bit of personality, we can have a bit of back and forth with you around it too. So I think the comic book allows for us to tailor the style of communication and teaching with each classroom and with each cohort within the class. Um, so definitely it it grabs attention and helps us then to have the opportunity to hold attention around the topic a lot more than some of the other programs that I would have delivered in the past, which rely very much on PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then sort of to D, just on the same sort of question. Um, what you said very early on was really interesting, that you had originally come up with five heroes, but there were 11 villains. I find that absolutely fascinating. And you've talked about reading the room. What did that surprise you? Yeah, it was no not.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah, go on, not at all. Um, like my background uh is in clinical practice, and you know, whenever a child would have come in to us within clinical practice, we would have always asked them to give the issue they were in to talk about a name because that detaches it from them, it isn't them, their identity, and overtaking and controlling them, it's separate. And when something's separate, it is much easier for you to work with them to overcome that. And if you think about it, that's exactly what villains are. You know, they are um a name for a character that has negative impact on your personality, on your emotions, on your mental well-being. Um, so absolutely, it did not surprise me in any shape or form that you know it was over double the level of heroes. It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

Yeah, it really is. Um, and talking about heroes, in in you know, general stories about superheroes, they have to overcome some kind of adversity. Do your heroes have any flaws or anything that they need to overcome in your stories? Can you give us an example?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah, all of our heroes have origin stories, um, and and that's obviously a time when they were younger and they have experienced maybe uh personal trauma because somebody they knew and were friendly with um passed away because of addiction, or another one is going through uh the fostering system and the injustice, and um another um uh is it called invictus, um which means um overcomer or resilient, um, and he was a GI and lost an arm and a leg and has a prosthetic arm, a prosthetic leg, an ear and eye implant, and it was all about his resilience in not letting that overwhelm him. Um so, yes, absolutely, they've all overcome, and then it's made it's made them drive to make sure that doesn't happen to someone else, and and then they come up with well, Veritas stands for truth, um, and obviously Invictus stands for resilience. Um so that's that's kind of the stories, but then there's a ground story, so you've got the lead character, but then you've got the upper heroes kind of a story filtering in the background, and then they have wizzes, they have times when you know they've maybe made poor choices or they've had fears, or they just misunderstood what another one of the heroes was saying, and a certain amount of animosity appeared because that's life. You know, kids need to understand no one's perfect, yeah. And if we try to portray these as being perfect, well, that's not real.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

Yeah, and that's what I was thinking because it it it then must make children or whoever's reading them thinking, well, I could go on to be even if overhear it. Yeah, even though I've got to say or I've done that bad thing. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't prevent it from going on and being gonna be how you step and how you act afterwards is important.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

It just has to be actually Uber is German for um outstanding. So actually, Uber heroes in English is outstanding heroes, and we want those children to be an outstanding hero in their mental health lives, and we empower them then with those tools and those techniques to be their own Uber hero.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

And actually, just that concept, it does challenge the superhero because the superhero is very much all good. That's it, it's very few flaws there, and I think that yeah, brilliant. Overho overcome is such a great word.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

It and it just has an overriding sense of hope. Yes, you know, that you can be who you want to be. I love that. Is there a most popular hero? I want to know that. Such a good and who is it? And do you know why they're so popular?

SPEAKER_05 29:24

It is such a good question, and this is something that I ask frequently because I like to kind of I'm very nosy and I like to figure it out. Um, obviously, in each class that we visit, there usually will be one that's standing out more to the class. Now, it isn't necessarily if there's a consistent hero, every class is different, and I suppose it's because it's such a personal thing what each hero represents. Well there will be one that will stand out to us more. I can tell you my favourite, and me and Dee actually have the same favourite her as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Go finger.

SPEAKER_05 29:55

Um, so our favourite is Veritas. She's a redhead hero on the website. She Veritas means truth. Yeah. And um, I think for me, the reason why she's my favourite is because whenever we talk about Veritas and truth, yes, it's being honest with other people and and teaching kids to be honest. But the primary thing we're trying to instill is that we need to take a minute and be honest with ourselves. I know, especially here, and I we always say, especially in Northern Ireland, we have a a habit of when someone asks you how you are, you'd say, I'm fine, I'm grand. Even if you're having the worst day ever. So it's just taking a little second to give yourself that moment and decide, okay, what do I need today? Honestly, how am I feeling? I'm feeling a wee bit ex a wee bit tired, I'm feeling a bit run down. Maybe I just take a break today. So it's trying to, I know it's something I need to work on, so that's why she's my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah. I love I love how adults can work through this because sometimes when you're working with a model that really connects with you, you end up using it as well, and it's absolutely brilliant. It's just like journaling, you teach it, and then you go, Oh, hang on, that works really well. And it's it's fabulous.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

Frequently we look at classrooms, and based off the what those kids have said in the session, we're we're looking at each other and saying, That was actually a brilliant idea. How come we never thought of that?

SPEAKER_02 31:16

But actually, we all have those net that negative voice inside your head. It's never positive, it's really always negative, and it's it's it's actually letting the kids understand we all hear that voice. You know, you're not unique, you're not alone, you're not odd, you're not weird, you don't have a problem. But we have to actually overcome that by being honest. And if we're not honest with ourselves first, actually we don't overcome that internal negative voice as well. So there's a real depth to kind of where we go with this.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

So powerful. And we will continue this conversation and we'll be back just after another tip from Dr. Gus Chavez.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Just because you're quiet doesn't mean you're at peace. Many people have learned to suppress emotions instead of expressing them. To avoid conflict, to keep others comfortable, to be strong. But unexpressed emotions don't disappear. They accumulate and they often show up in other ways. Stress, anxiety, overeating, irritability. So here's a gentle reminder you are allowed to feel, you're allowed to express, and you're allowed to take up space. Because true peace isn't about silence, it's about honesty.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Welcome back um to Dee and Nadia, where we're having such a nice discussion. This is really lovely, deep actually, as well, which is so interesting. Yeah, and it's just it's just a very hopeful, you know, it's just got such a lovely message. Um, so what made you decide in your stories then to use villains? Um and and also how how do they impact each of the comic stories?

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Um well the kids decide, you know, they're the ones that come up with um, you know, we we would have probably on our website um new heroes and new villains, maybe 20 every week.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

So they are constantly being created by kids. In fact, we have kids who will have a half-hour break, 15 minutes outside, and then 15 minutes to actually eat their break. And they spend that 15 minutes drawing a brand new character to present to us before we leave or to talk through with us um before the rest of the kids come back into the class. So they're just so engaged with either creating heroes or creating villains. And like anything in life, you know, we focus on the negative more than we focus on the positive, don't we? Um so we do have, I would say, uh, you know, a significantly higher level of villains being created by these children and young people. Again, than we do heroes, which just reflects right back to the first group that we worked with. Um, and it's still the same today. And again, you know, for us uh it's the learning of you may be feeling exactly the same way as the lead character in this comic. So that teaches you you're not unique and you're not alone. And actually, if that negative villain has affected your life in a really um impactful way, but actually by the end of this story, you have been able to overcome that, and that's either by using tools that you have learned or by seeking support from someone else that villains aren't always going to be in your lives, you can overcome that, but we need structure and we need support for you to be able to do that, and because a lot of children don't talk because they just think they're the only ones feeling that way, and we know that from disclosures in the classroom.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Because I just think what I find very really interesting is you can usually say usually, but when people write a story, they've got the hero, and the hero overcomes the adversities. Now they're not necessarily villains, they're their own hero's flaws, they're their own hero's story and their origin story. But what I think is really interesting is you've added another dimension by adding villains, not just by getting the clinical side of it, which is getting the child to name the bully or the aggressor or the or the puppeteer. So you you you give life almost and depth to something that they're facing on top of their own personal flaws, I guess, that they have to overcome, and how do you get to talk about how a hero with this flaw will deal with this villain? So it's it's like a whole other level, which is absolutely incredible. I mean, the conversations must be absolutely mind-blowing sometimes when children just grasp that and can express themselves. Can you just sorry, Natya? Do you have any moments where you just want to? Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_05 36:44

So many. And I think the key is because it's not a scripted program, that is the last thing we would want. We want those kids to to use their brain, to use their imagination, to be able to be honest with us in that room. So it's my job and our job to create that space. Yeah. To make sure that they've we build that relationship, we're honest and transparent ourselves. And whenever they have those light bulb moments, or they're pulling this information out and putting things together, and they're going, Have you ever thought of this? It's so important that we're saying, Actually, I've never thought of that. That's brilliant. Tell me more about that. And we're trying to encourage them to continue using that because that in itself, that depth of I suppose, understanding and then putting it all together and being confident enough to share this new idea or new take or new perspective, that in itself is a really important skill that we sometimes don't get to build and isn't celebrated. So that is a part of the more subtle skill building that we're trying to enable these kids to do and trying to bolster and support that they continue to do that into adulthood.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

So that's a that's a really, really good point because obviously when you're there, when the teachers are there, and the children coming up with these amazing ideas, and they're obviously inspired, you can tell from what you're saying. So, how do you ensure that they can take that through you know, through life with them and kind of continue to to use the skills that you're teaching them to continue to build their own strength and resilience?

SPEAKER_05 38:18

So I think a big part of that obviously is within that conversation, is allowing that conversation after we read the comic to flow naturally. Um that's part of the facilitation. We're not there to train and to talk at, we're there to facilitate their conversation and then leading it. Um, and there's loads of small micro ways of doing that that we will put into the program. Um, we have a very skilled team, we're very lucky to have a team that really are passionate about hearing what these young people have to say, uh, about reading that room and making sure that those young people know that they're in control of that session the whole time. And then whenever we're having that conversation, we're trying to nurture it through. So allowing them the freedom to express what they need to express and what they want to express, then validating what they're saying. If we're not, if it's not something we've thought of, it's actually showing a genuine interest. Explain to me how how you got that. Where did that come from? Just because I didn't think of it doesn't mean that it's not right. In fact, it's usually a lot better than what I did think of. So I want them to teach me. But then we're trying to help them with the practical application. So anything from the conversation, not just actual tools and techniques, but realizations that they're having. We're helping them to practically apply it to their own lives, show them where it is relevant in their lives. Like a very simple example of this is resilience. It became a buzzword for many, many years. It was mentioned everywhere. You need to build resilience, you don't have enough resilience. I was an adult, and at the start I didn't know what that actually looked like. So how are we expecting young people to be more resilient if they don't know what that is? Well, for us, an example of a 10-year-old showing resilience is them going to a football match on a Saturday and losing.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:10

It being an awful game, and then still turning off to training on Tuesday to say, right, well, what could we have done differently or better?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:18

So it's showing them that practical application that a lot of them are already doing. Yeah. But they just can't identify it and build on it. Yeah. And then afterwards, after the session, on our website, we have this support line called Ask an Uber Hero a Question. So they can contact us through that support line at any time. They will get a response within 24 hours. Uh it's confidential, other than obviously if it means that they're at risk of hurting themselves or someone else, or and all of that is explained within the workshop so they fully understand. But they can contact us afterwards because sometimes you have those realizations afterwards, or maybe you feel more comfortable asking outside in a more private forum. Quite often kids from classrooms will communicate with us afterwards, and it sometimes is maybe I have another take on this. Would this be work? Would this work? Or could I try this? And it reinforces that learning. And it wouldn't be rare that we have young people who maybe we've met in P7 who are 10 years old contacting us when they're 12, 13, or 14 via that means to talk about something they're going through currently. Um because we built that relationship then and they remember that we're still there, even if we're not practically in their school at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

And they have the language to talk about it, which is absolutely brilliant because that's the work that you're doing. So, Dee, what for you would a mentally healthy superhero look like? Bearing in mind we all have floors, we have a car, we all know what that look like. Good luck with that one.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Thanks. Um for me, to be honest, it's it's kind of building that that expectation that that you need to be self-aware. Yeah. You know, looking at all the stuff we've talked about already and and helping those children to understand that actually if you are self-aware, if you you check in with yourself, we talk about in the classroom, take a beat. Take a beat. In other words, do that pause and start that kind of truthful questioning in your head to um, you know, we've talked about obviously truth and veritas, but looking at at how can we then maybe use some of those maintenance tools that we uh have shared in other sessions or in that session um or who do I trust and who actually has the ability to help whatever that situation actually is, because you might want to talk to a friend if it's you know maybe somebody bullying you, but it's not uh so overwhelming that you are feeling at risk, or it might be something very serious like abuse, where you need to have an adult that you need to go to. And it's it's that awareness when we look at the heroes that they're able to reflect all of that back to the children so that the children can see it being taught on a regular basis just through that repetition of how the heroes actually behave and interact with the lead character through all of the different storylines.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Oh yes, absolutely, and that repetition part of the story that you can talk about and you can unpick as well, which is really really helpful for a child. So we've talked about the children, but what would you like the parent or the teacher to take away from reading this? Because they will I mean, I know I would probably sit there and be quite surprised. And then Maybe you want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

That does happen. So initially, whenever we were doing that kind of initial setup and creation of Uber Heroes, the young people actually asked for a hard copy comic instead of a soft copy. So we had that was even one of the questions, would you rather PDF or would you rather a physical comic? And they'd requested a physical comic because it meant that they could actually take it home, set it on the kitchen counter, set it on the coffee table, and that prompted a conversation with their parents should they need it. It was because sometimes the hardest part is actually approaching and starting that conversation with a teacher or with a parent because you don't know the words. So if that prompts it, that young person doesn't have to start the conversation. So for a parent, I think if they see that comic book, or even if they don't, one of the biggest questions to ask yourself, and it's something I thought a lot about because I've recently become a parent. So I'm saying, thank you. I'm seeing this through a different lens now. It's am I allowing that space or that opportunity for the important conversations not to make them big data conversations, but just to make them just standard conversations about important things. Am I allowing that space? Because sitting, and this is just as a as overall as an adult, sitting on your phone blocking out everything around you isn't creating that space or opportunity. Um and then for teachers and for everyone else again, for readers, for teachers, what can I do to better look after myself? If you've read that comic, I think it's it's the first prompt is reflection. What am I doing to look after make sure I'm okay? Yeah. Because if if I'm okay and if I'm looking after myself, I'll be in a better position to support the people around me then.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Absolutely. It's good point. The most important messages, yeah, but coming through a medium which you can really connect with. And I I think what you're doing is wonderful. And on that, can we access this program in the UK? Because it's so good, and it's you know, we we're all ex-teachers, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

And so it's you can see so many schools that would absolutely benefit from this from uh June. Oh wow, amazing. It is going to be available. So obviously, we all know third sector, um, you know, government have switched off a lot of funding, and especially in Northern Ireland, um, and everybody's struggling. So, you know, we really took the time to create this program um and like it took a long time. So once we had worked for 18 weeks with that initial cohort, we then took it out and we focus grouped that with over 700 kids in high areas of deprivation and need, in areas where there was kind of gangline kind of behaviors in rural and urban areas. And that gave us a real breadth of what these children were experiencing and did that reflect and did that connect. We then brought back everything that that they had given us in that um focus group, and we then created the program as they had requested. We then took it back as a proof of concept to the exact same 700 kids and asked them, was that what they wanted? And uh were there things they'd like to change or adapt. They were absolutely shocked that a group of adults had asked for their opinion, actually heard about it and came back and gave them exactly what they wanted. So we ran that across the 700 and then we then did the first pilot. So that's a lot of piece of work, and obviously everything we do is data capture. So we do part of the national general health questionnaire with the kids at the start, but we also do a pre- and a post survey. So we're constantly collecting data, so it's data rich because that gives us our impact and our outcomes for the children, which is so important. We've uh worked with about 60,000 children across Northern Ireland, and we have directly helped 11,170 kids that are asking every hero a question and helpline. And those are kids in crisis across 35 different issues and and and um health problems. Um so we've been contacted uh by people in America, by people in Australia, you've heard of us, and by people across uh in in the rest of GB. Um so from June you can buy a license for the Uber Heroes program, which uh is very cost efficient and very cost effective. We give you all the training, the support, and obviously all the resources, including the comics, and you can choose whatever comics you want. We've 18 to choose from, but you can also um if you wanted to potentially say um if because obviously the news recently, the a lot of the anti-Semitic problems going on, the knife crimes, you know, your county line uh gangs, you might want to do a comic and you can create that with somebody local. We will design it and work with you and that young person, and then you get that shipped over to you for you to deliver, and we'll help you to create the resources on on the pre- and post surveys, etc. etc. Um, so that will be available come June from Hope for Life.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Oh, that is wonderful. And right, where can we get hold of you? Because now I know that I'm gonna be sending that email to everybody and telling everyone go to this website.

SPEAKER_05 49:43

If if you jump to our website, hopeforlifeni.co.uk, and that links you through to the Uberheroes website as well, which is obviously uberheroes.co.uk, and uh you can contact us via both websites.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Amazing. I mean, Nadia and Dee, this the work you are doing is so, so important. It's so powerful. I wish you continued success with it. And I look forward to seeing it rolled out across uh the UK and beyond as well, because it really is, I think it's such a great way of getting people to have young people to have that mental health, not just conversation, but understanding and ways and tools that they can manage what they're going through. So thank you so much for your time today. It's been such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 50:30

Thank you for inviting us along.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

And we will head over to Test the Trend. Test the Trend this week is just uh one of those questions about heroes and wearing masks. Now, heroes wear masks to protect their identity, but I think we wear masks sometimes to protect our emotions, we protect our um true feelings, we protect ourselves as well. So, is wearing a mask beneficial? That's the first question. Do you think it is?

SPEAKER_04 51:05

That's a massive question. And I suppose the short answer would be it would depend on the circumstances. Yes, I mean, going back to when we were teachers, we probably had to put a mask on all of the time. Absolutely. I mean, I've always said being a teacher is a bit like being an actor. And where the mask comes in is if you're if you're feeling rubbish or if something awful has happened, you can't project that to the children. You have to um I always called it putting a hat on, but it's the same, putting a mask on. You're masking how you truly or yeah, something, okay. Um yes.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Yeah, no, it's it's actually true. I mean, it was funny because I think this broke the tension in my class, I had a year seven class, and they would recognise that I would be having a go at them for whatever bad behaviour they got up to because my class was just awful, they were followers, they never led anything, they just followed, followed others, and that's what that's what I told them off for. But then lead to the thing, for goodness sake. So I don't teach anymore. Um, but what I'd I'd been in the middle of and we don't behave in that way, then someone knocked on the door and hello, hi! You come in. I think it broke the tension in my room, but you have to do that because that person's not at fault. Exactly. So, the question for Tessa Trend is identify a moment when you are wearing a mask and ask yourself, is this beneficial? And the second question that you ask yourself is how might this be detrimental to my well-being if I don't drop the mask? And just those two questions, and then you can think about later when you've got time to reflect, when is it appropriate to use that mask and when maybe do we need to drop it? That programme is amazing, and I wish when I was a teacher I'd had something like that to work with.

SPEAKER_04 53:04

That's exactly what I was thinking all the way through. I I'll I'll never forget this. There was a boy in year nine. No, year eight, that was the that was the last year. I was in middle school, and the middle school completely closed down. So on the very last day of the existence of the school, this boy came to me and he told me that he'd been self-harming. Oh no. And he'd been doing it for a long time, but he'd never told anybody until the very last day of school. Um that was just so upsetting because he'd been struggling with it all the time. And all I was thinking, not all I was thinking, but I was thinking when um Dean Nadia was speaking, I wish we'd had this because the the superhero heroes element would really have appealed to him. Yeah, and maybe it makes me feel emotional even now. Maybe he would have spoken to someone sooner.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yes, and and we would have had the language to talk to the child about it. Because otherwise I think teachers are feeling scared.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Yeah, and we were we were quite fortunate that we had an in-house counsellor. Right. So he would you know, I went and got the counselor straight away. But what if we hadn't, you know, what who I know that there were things in place and I could have referred him, but he wouldn't have got immediate help. He, you know, and I and I always think about him six years later, seven years later, and you know, hope he's okay. And I think this the program would have been absolutely amazing for him and so many children like him.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

All of that will be in the show notes. So if you are watching and you're a school and you think that this will really work for you, please please do get in touch with them because I think what they're doing is absolutely brilliant, and it's creating a whole new language to talk about mental health, and I think it's a language we really really need. Yes. So, from all of us at mental health matters, from all of us adults, have a healthy week.